In all democracies a leadership change is preceded by polls which discuss rival claimants and their chances, but not this one.
Here we talk only of Rudd, even though he ruled himself out, once again, on Sunday. Carr, who would earn Labor 53 percent, two-party preferred, Shorten who would get, oh, 54 percent, two party preferred, Plibersek and Roxon and Clare who would get 51, are not mentioned, nor ‘left-field’ candidates like Mike Kelly who in 2010 in the ‘litmus seat’ of Eden-Monaro got a swing to Labor when the swing elsewhere was the other way.
As in all Murdoch-dominated countries, the rules of engagement are changed each hour to suit the great proprietor. He needs an Ides of March facedown between two doomed candidates and this is what by God he will get. It is fated. Rupert has said Do this, and, lo, it is performed.
So no poll asking if Abbott or Shorten would be a better Prime Minister has ever been done, only Abbott versus Rudd, and Abbott versus Gillard, and Gillard versus Rudd, even though it is widely thought that Shorten will be Labor leader in September and might, as sitting Prime Minister, thrash him. Why, old friend, is this? Why is this?
It is because the Murdochists want an impression of Labor in chaos, facing a hopeless choice between losers on, preferably, the Ides of March, or near it. Labor in with a chance, or Labor, horrors, winning, does not suit the Great Helmsman’s priorities. So seventy years of democratic practice are overthrown, and only one other candidate, widely thought to be a failure, a pest and a pious loon, is mentioned in Murdoch’s one hundred and forty-nine papers. A strange choice, old friend, surely. Surely. Why not someone else?
For in 1963, for instance, when Harold Macmillan, ailing and battered by the Profumo-Keeler scandal, was thought likely to step down, five candidates – Maudling, MacLeod, Heath, Home and Hailsham – were spoken of. In 2007, after Howard lost his seat, five candidates — Costello, Abbott, Hockey, Turnbull and Nelson — were named and assessed. It was thought that the mighty post of Leader of the Opposition merited several contenders. But now the mightier post of Prime Minister merits only two, it seems, both with ragged records and likely to lose to even Abbott, a troubled, hectic, thick-eared, punch-drunk, some say crazy man. Why is this?
Well, it’s because Abbott is such a lousy candidate, the Murdochists dare not consider, dare not even name, anyone who could beat him. It is obvious Carr could. And Clare. And Combet. And Plibersek. And Roxon. And Shorten. And Kelly. And Smith. And Swan. And probably even Crean and Burke and Macklin.
So the Helmsman regally declares these faces must be erased from the Official Picture, and lo, they are. And only Rudd, a party-splitting non-candidate loathed by half his party, is wondrously superimposed.
The Murdochists have only two tricks. One says the Left are conniving crooks, the other they are chaotic fools. Gillard-the-union-crook having failed, they now try Gillard-the-embattled-klutz being opposed by Rudd-the-embattled-klutz. That should do it.
And it’s working. Though Labor is getting good laws through and the economy is fine, the impression given is Labor worried, scared, frantic, talking about itself all day and biting itself in its sleep. When in fact it is governing the country, quite ably. Getting on with the job, as they say.
It is terrifically unfair. And it is based on the weird idea that Rudd is the only Labor person who wants to be Prime Minister.
It is a Big Lie, and it should be nailed.
It is also worth pondering why six hundred thousand people turned against Labor in a fortnight, if they did, and they may have. Because the reason may be circumstantial, and it may be short-lived. Obeid and McDonald will go to gaol, Slipper and Thomson be acquitted, or shown to have done little wrong, Labor will pick up seats in Western Australia, Brough and Ashby go on trial for conspiracy and face imprisonment, and, it may well be, the Child Abuse Enquiry find prominent Liberal Catholics to have covered up, or not, priestly pederasts.
It can change. It can change in a fortnight, as it did last fortnight.
It is mostly a race against despair, against the Big Murdoch Lies that are overwhelming, lately, the western world.
Discuss.
Name:
And there was Lawrence Krauss, a renowned cosmologist, scientific educator, and director of the Origins Project at Arizona State University on last night’s Q&A praising Australia to high heaven on Gillard having had the guts to have introduced a carbon tax… “The world is in very dire straights,” he stated.
If and ‘if’ Australia decides to be so stupid and pig headed to go with Abbott, I can only say we will plunge back to a very dark age,a richly deserved fate for having made a ridiculous choice
Hi Gerard, (in case you missed it on the other thread) I got the stats in answer to your statement about “Figures show that Abbott reduced expenditure on health by over 15% while minister for health”. When I said that forward estimates were reduced under Abbott but that actual expenditure was increased in real terms while he was Minister – from 2003 to Nov 2007 - you queried that.
I found the actual figures for you. As I said in the message:-
‘Look for “Total Health Expenditure” page 21 pf 200. Gives figures from 1996/7 to 2006/7’ in
http://www.aihw.gov.au/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=6442457494.
At least YOU will know that the line about Abbott reducing health expenditure when minster is false.
…and did you notice how impressed the very eminent Lawrence Krauss was with our Plibersek…of course beauty, brains and charm has always been, well, attractive.
You’re late.
Yeah I couldn’t get a donkey, what happened?
They let Barrabas go and took the other guy.
What? They took the other guy? My boss loves the other guy, went to see him at the festival of ideas on the Mount, sat next to him at a wedding in Cana, they talked together about bringing an end to the wine monopoly in Palestine. He thought the other guy was a really nice guy, he ain’t gonna be happy at all. He was counting on the other guy.
Yeah but this guy has at least another twelve guys who could fill in for him.
Sure but they are not like this guy, this guy was really popular. He was more popular than the other twelve guys put together.
Not according to this crowd, in a show of hands, Barabbas won hands down, is that a paradox or a tautology?
It’s a mixed metaphor. Well it’s their loss because this guy was the guy, he’s loved by a bunch of people I tell ya, a bunch, and despite this setback he’s gonna be the guy again, mark my words Mark.
Nah, it won’t matter, the Romans, they’re the real guys.
What have the Roman ever done for us?
Frank, what are you doing there in Queensland, teaching science and religion in the same class…
No wonder you want Abbott, you want to prove Keating right that this country is indeed the ass-end end of the world.
I dunno Helvi, the education experts in this country are doing a pretty good job without my help.
You mention teaching. What do you make of the report in the paper today where Primary School Principals want to dumb down our kids with LESS Maths, LESS Science and LESS Reading and more SOFT courses like “Creativity,” and “being able to work collaboratively.”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/principals-warn-against-too-much-reading-and-maths/story-fn59niix-1226580707147
This is really working against Labor party policy I would have thought. To lower the education standards in this country and dumb kids down. Is this Labor policy? Not in an overt way I mean, just the implications of letting these institutions like the Australian Primary Principals Association dictate education policy because the kids might hurt their brains if forced to think.
Given the broad notion that most academics and teachers are pro labor, I get the distinct impression that there is this subtle Leftist campaign to dumb people down in the West to allow them to be more compliant in herding around and being manipulated by their Orwellian overlord Masters.
Am I becoming paranoid? Do tell me if I am…
Creativity is widely recognised by education experts as the key to improving learning, especially at a young age. It helps children to enjoy rather than dread learning and provides them with better and more useful life skills.
Creative subjects are equally as important as basic literacy and numeracy in primary education because they teach students how to learn: it sets them up for a much better secondary education.
Like all education, it’s about the long term investment.
Don’t be blindly conservative and just write it off.
Frank, I was referring to last night’s Q&A…one Queensland mum was complaining about your schools…
To have ANY chance Labor must:-
1. Reveal the lies of the Howard Dark Years-this has never been done, especially the structural debt/deficit Howard has left our kids.
2. Stop treating the Libs with kid gloves-do what Abbott does “Buckets Jackson” them.
3. Sell the government’s strong economic credentials and show data to prove that the Liberals were never “Economic Managers” but the recipients of good luck as Howard has said himself (“the times have been good to me”).
4. Demonstrate that our debt is minimal, manageable, largely caused by international factors resulting in a loss of nearly $200billion in revenue making surpluses near impossible unless you tax at the rate Howard did- 31% of GDP in 2006.
5. Destroy the Liberal sacred cow mantra of “surpluses”. There have been many successful governments all over the world and here that have existed without producing surpluses. A surplus is not real if it is produced by selling off our assets, mass sackings and cutting funds to schools and hospitals-this is what Liberals have done in the past.
6. Have ONE big turd on Abbott in the bottom drawer to be saved for the last week of the campaign to tip on him.
O
7. Get on talkback radio and take on the biased shock jocks at their own game. Labor has been missing in action on this for five years. Staffers monitor talkback every day so why the hell don’t they phone like Liberal staffers do instead of sitting on their arses doing fuck all but give electoral losing advice?
8. School halls and Pink Batts were not failures as several independent studies have found but Labor has never challenged the Libs on this. Any programme that has 99-98% success rate is something to brag about!
9. Have open debates with as many Liberals as possible-their front bench is very frail. That said, there is no way Labor can win because these things should have been done from day one in 2007.
In fact Labor does not deserve to win. Labor has not been “hungry” enough. Labor has let a great opportunity slip by, to be totally outclassed and outmaneuvered by the Libs who are masters of the negative and have excelled in selling their story of doom and gloom.
Put simply, the Libs have been much better skilled at selling their negative message than Labor has at selling the good things it has done. These 9 points must be enforced daily at every opportunity, every doorstop. Just like Howard and Costello used to. They were the masters of “staying on message”
But WOMBAT, you are forgetting one very important factor in all that: Rupert Murdoch.
Difficult for a Labor polly to write a column in the Murdoch press unless he lets you! I have addressed the Murdoch issue on this blog elsewhere, several times.
Lots of Labor people write for The Australian.
Craig Emerson has a regular column in The Australian. Very dull writer. I never read him.
Graham Richardson writes weekly too. He’s entertaining but never writes about Offset Alpine for some reason.
Gary Johns writes as well. He’s okay.
I think if you are across your facts pretty well and can mount an interesting argument you will get a gig with the Oz.
The Oz will publish alternative views. Say Climate Change. They will have 5 deniers letters to the editor to 1 warmist believer;s letter. That sounds fair ratio to me because I don’t believe in Climate Change.
Its all Communist propaganda.
I notice Fairfax have axed Peter Costello’s fortnight column and offered him a monthly gig instead. He refused. The Oz should snap him up. I wish the Oz would pick up Latham as he has moments of great crazy lucidity. He’s a climate change believer. His western suburbs neighbors must give him hell.
And I should add, Mark Latham is a very good writer. Crazy, but very good. Marvelously entertaining. If you havent read The Latham Dairies, go to your local library and put it on the reserve list. He;s almost as good as Bob.
Yes I wld like to see Latham write for the Oz or The Terror. I see the Oz has kicked out the moderates, Mike Steketee, George Meg etc. When U count up the middle of the road columnists in The Terror and Yhe Oz v The Far Right Wing…they are outnumbered 7 to one. Mat Price is sadly, sadly missed. A big Dylan fan too!
But the message remains the same. You want Gillard replaced, not by Murdoch’s choice, but one from your list.
Excuse me Ministers’ Shorten/Carr/Plibersek/Combet/Clare. It is reported this morning that Bob Ellis said you all had a better chance of the ALP winning Government under your individual stewardship’s than the current PM, not to mention the boost to the polls Kevin Rudd could bring if he were to lead the party.
Can I ask you as a group or individually; one do you think this is true and two are any of you contemplating a tilt at the leadership?
This creates more of a dilemma for the electorate as well as the ALP if such a poll were to be taken.
If such a poll was taken Abbott would be shown to be easily beatable, and the Labor Party could make its choice and unite behind him/her before a November election, taunting Abbott all the way.
And what would be wrong with that?
Maybe it is all those years of hearing “division is death”, “unity is strength” arguments.
If I was the Lib’s strategist, I would remark on the fact that anyone but Gillard could give the ALP a competitive edge, but whoever they decide and whenever they decide, they will still have my boy Abbott to contend with.
And you might wonder why, with the apparent depth of talent they insist on inflicting Gillard upon the electorate, the least with the most to lose.
Talk about a first class party with a second class leader.
How can they be ambitious for Australia, when they aren’t even ambitious enough to provide their best candidate to the electorate?
Julia Gillard the Black Caviar of second place.
See what I mean.
Abbott can’t rise to the role of Opposition Leader, how the hell is he going to rise to position of PM? Although look at Kennett, he rose from buffoon to Premier, and some say he never let go.
You were right when you said earlier they should take on TA with argument and debate. He himself said lately at the Canberra Press conference he was going to be running an autocratic Cabinet. What he says goes. He should be taken to task on Battlelines. And I think every question concerning Economics should go to Abbott, that was his speciality at Oxford was it not? To me he looks mighty uncomfortable talking Economics.
The ALP should leave Hockey to one side counting calories, and direct every question in regards to Economics to Abbott, it’s his weakest suit.
Yeah but unity is not unity when it seen to be a pack of lies. The Liberal Party was once ‘united’ behind Billy MacMahon.
And, sure enough, it lost.
And then it was ‘united’ behind Billy Snedden.
And sure enough it lost.
And, though it had had seven leaders in ten years, it won with a good one, Fraser, by a landslide.
If Labor changes now it will have had five leaders in ten years.
And I don’t see the problem.
But Labor stands for solidarity comrade, it’s all but forgotten, the world moves on, but the mythic proportion of that solidarity is embedded in the culture not only of the party but in the minds of much of the electorate.
That is why, despite the political leanings of the electorate, they expect loyalty and solidarity, unity of cause and purpose from the ALP. The Lib’s they know are a bunch of opportunists.
Nostalgia for days of hope and all of that. That is why the Libs will jump all over the accession to the throne.
It’s like believing in the BBC and that Jimmy Saville never happened.
The Libs have had four leaders, and one Great Lost Leader, Costello, in five years.
And they are set to win.
Discuss.
They’ve only had two leaders, Menzies and Howard.
Costello was a faded note in his own wallet.
I hope I’m not detecting a certain amount of attitude in that comment, allthumbs. I’ve done some spot polling of the Sunrise set. They don’t know who anyone is, they just want to see some action. The ALP guy who currently does Sunrise comes across as being quite nice, although they can’t remember his name or department or even give an accurate description. They’d be more than happy to have him as leader, whoever it may be.
The ALP is as much hamstrung by its best attributes as it is by its worse.
Phil’s longing for an ALP lead by its once traditional working class roots is a chimera. I want to see him explain to a train driver he’s why he is an example of the working class, and wasn’t steam a grand thing.
If someone voted for Gillard because she reminded them of a favourite teacher they once had in Primary School, and for no other reason, is the ALP honour bound to reject that vote?
You say sexy Reader, you say Shorten. “Bill he’s Short ‘en’ Sexy”. Bob thought Tony was handsome.
There is something else at play in this election and I cannot put my finger on it, the closest I can get to it is the “uncertainty” in a very uncertain world.
Forget policy give ‘em circuses. Someone needs to hold the electorate in their arms and tell them everything is going to be OK.
That would be Rhys.
I would like to see a bit of sex appeal brought back into Australian politics. I say we go with Shorten. Either that or Rhys.
It worked for Chifley. The old lady that lives two doors away still goes on about his high waisted trousers and the pipe, Chifley’s I mean.
Come on, R1, how dumbed down do you WANT it??
I wouldn’t turn down a root with Shorten. Nothing dumb about that.
Abbott might be more your cup of tea.
That’s gross. Stop projecting.
Well it won’t be Byron Bay, will it? No Siree. Count to ten.
Me. Shorten. Andrea Dworkin suite.
I guarantee it will be all over in well under ten seconds.
And no felching?
Had to google that and it’s gross. Stop projecting.
Ted Lapkin, anyone?
Oops, not an Oz politician.Big boy, Hockey?.
Tell the truth R1, it was a term that had slipped under my radar was well. Was introduced to it by a young lady at another site, “No Place For Sheep”.
Don’t be delusional no candidate other than Rudd (still a long shot) now has a chance of winning. Maybe they could save half a dozen seats but not even get close to a sniff of victory.
2 options Rudd or be smashed at the ballot box.
Does Shorten prefer that his faction is dominant when the ALP is in opposition for the next 2-3 terms or does he want a shot (very small chance) at winning as treasurer with Rudd.
Which does he chose?
Which does he prefer?
Rudd or Bust?
Speaking of unity whats up with his right faction at a local level? It appears they too are divided are the Bills (Big and Small) losing control?
What poll says Rudd is more popular than Shorten?
Please name it.
And punch it up.
Bob, probably a little less statistically rigorous
but:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/politics/labor-on-the-critical-list-20120501-1xw40.html
Do not waste my time.
Show me a poll, or have done.
Bob, the poll is at the foot of the article and has Shorten @ 11 % to Rudd’s 49%.
Gillard is 14, Smith 14 and Crean 12. Voting sample 30612.
You are a useless cunt and a liar. You know full well the non-Rudd figures are 50 and in a two-man facedown Shorten would get all of them. You also know full well that forty-eight percent of the respondents are Coalition voters who want the Labor Party led by a loser.
The only polls that make sense are Shorten versus Abbott and Rudd versus Abbott.
Do not tell lies. Do not tell lies.
I hate you telling lies.
I am a useless cunt, I admit, but a liar?
What counts is overcoming the turgid political narrative now being run by News, Fairfax and even Mungo.
It only ends one way: another leadership showdown.
If Rudd has truly left the pitch I wonder if Bill will step up?
Prove that I speak the truth?
And remaster Nostradamus Kid for fucks sake! My recent DVD looks like shit and I love that film.
And who was McAllister?
And keep the gossip and abuse coming. It’s much too late for anything else.
McAlister was a mixture of Les Murray, Roy Masters and Richard Brennan.
Thanks, Bob. Wonderful character superbly played.
See what sort of polls Rudd has after a month or two of political ads from the Noalition : they simply have to cut and paste from 10 or 20 leading Labor Ministers and Trade Union officials.
The Noalition are slavering at the thought of a Rudd comeback.
Did anyone say lose 50 seats?
“The Noalition are slavering at the thought of a Rudd comeback.”
Indeed they are Doug. They will be able to get rid of their own Albatross around their necks then.
Rudd PM would lose 50 seats.
http://www.smh.com.au/national/letters/give-kevin-a-break-20130219-2eovd.html#ixzz2LKbKetW1
” Phil’s longing for an ALP lead by its once traditional working class roots is a chimera.”
Yea is that right? I said from the first time I put a comment on this blog, Gillard would be gone before the election. If we were playing cards, I have a fairly strong hand.
I was shot down by all the so called experts about how Gillard was going to take us all to the promised land, it has come to nought, as I predicted.
It may come as a surprise to you it is no MYTH that Labor party members are leaving the party in droves. I have just sent my card back over the cuts to social welfare.
The Labor party couldn’t do much worse by having it run by a train driver or a waitress in a wharfies canteen.
If you think the Labor party can operate without union contributions, which is made up of toilet cleaners, and other working class members your condescending remarks were pointed at,you are away with the fairies.
This Labor party has been hijacked by suits who don’t have a clue, that is no Chimera my friend.
The union movement is quite cognisant of this salient fact and if we get trounced at the next election, there are going to be changes.That is no ‘Chimera ‘ either.
So here we are, Gillard on this blog was impregnable,the annointed one, Rudd a duffer. We shall see, Rudd will be back. After listening to Milne drop the shite on Labor at the press club, all has been revealed. The back door deal done with mining companies will be her Swan song, no pun intended.
But if I’m wrong, I’m sure I’ll be able to cover up my mis-judgement with a load of old bollocks, just like everyone here is doing now it is obvious the writings on the wall.
Phill, the Union movement seems as good as dead to me, aside from the Nurses and Teachers, and that’s about pay and policy and a middle-class concern.
The concept of the working class, is dead, I don’t mean it doesn’t exist, but its constituent members don’t see themselves that way anymore. And class discussion in Australia was a no no and so we just abolished the working class as we were all mates.
I just keep seeing that hand over hand gesture made by Mark Latham talking about climbing the ladder of aspiration or whatever it was, like some 1960′s go-go dancer. He was trying to give some definition to the working class paradox. The ALP didn’t help him with that one, not at all.It was a chance to change the language.
We have defined success in other terms none of which involve class.
Rudd is a rich man, he leads a rich mans life.
I think we have to change the language, maybe even away from English, we’ve used it up, exceeded its vocabulary, bent it out of shape. Let’s change it to Spanish, it’ll give us a fresh start, new ideas, new relationships.
I mean viva la Revolution sounds better than Billion Dollar Jobs plan.
allthumbs you are missing my point.
I don’t like Rudd, I’ll repeat that for you, I don’t like Rudd. He is as you say a rich man, his wife became a rich women off the back of changes to the employment service, by John Howard.
I wouldn’t piss on Kevin Rudd if we was on fire. I may take a leak on him to make him smell like a man.
Having said that, I hate, actually, there is not a word in the English language to describe how I feel about conservatives, especially Tony Abbott who will bring this country to its knees.
Yes Gillard cut social welfare, but I know that is nothing, compared to what Abbott is going to do when he gets into the lodge.
Rudd was a winner, he was dumped on the alter of Julia Gillards ego. At the risk of repeating myself, Rudd would have won the next election in a canter. Love or loath him he was a winner.
Rudd is loved by the electorate, just like Howard was Go figure!
The Labor party is a broad church, there are still honourable men/women in its ranks. They would not have let Rudd turn it into his own ‘Company Pty Limited.’
Rudd could still pull it off, I could give a shit about personalities. Politics is about winning, and more winning, did I mention winning?
The Labor party as much as I am blowing a gasket, can still win.
The Labor party has run a good government, but they are losing the P.R. war because they haven’t got a clue.
They thought Gillard was going to walk it in, so they all sat back on their fat arses and did nothing.
allthumbs, you are deluding yourself.
People have been talking this nonsense about the non-existence of class for over a century now; during which time great class battles have been won and lost, revolutions come and gone.
When I was child in the sixties everyone was supposed to pretend Australia was classless….now you here journalists in the mainstream press refer to working class this and middle class that. It is pretty much since the fall of the Berlin Wall. The feeling I think is that the working class has been defeated so it is less important to pretend it doesn’t exist.
You yourself tag the teachers and nurses as middle class so you are yourself clearly aware of the class system. (Although more accurately they are lower middle class, “petit-bourgeoisie”)
So are working class people aware of themselves as such, even if they use different language. In a period of defeat at the moment is all. This has happened before. It won’t last forever.
To say there is no class war is to say no-one minds Gina Rinehart making two million dollars an hour out of minerals we, the people own and she, the lazy bitch, never lifted a mattock or spade to extract.
Hands up those who think she deserves it.
I am not making myself clear. The working class exist, I know that, I do not dispute that whether they see themselves and define themselves in those terms is another kettle of fish.
That is what I meant by Latham trying to find another way of saying it without diluting the meaning, the history, the legacy or insulting the demographic.
But you have to think of the opposition argument, it will be one of “class envy” perpetrated by the ALP.
You have to have the strategy to combat that definition.
Libs: The ALP think you are defined by your class, your background, your past. We think you are defined by your potential, by your future,by the best in you,blah,blah,blah
How are you going to reintroduce the class argument into the discussion? In Greece and Spain they have found a way.
New language is needed. I agree the argument is the same but it needs to be couched in new language.
Working class pride is just not enough anymore if you are pushing a button on an assembly line and watching robots building cars.
OK, allthumbs. The modern left has largely poisoned this discussion by treating class as something like race, and thus class consciousness as something like racism.
This is largely because the left is itself mostly of middle class or lower middle class background.
They don’t quite get that the socialist aim is not to exalt the working class but to abolish it.
Who would want to be working class? A masochist?
Instead the left insist on treating working class people much as they treat, say, Aborigines. Talking of the white left here.
And this opens the way to the Liberal line you correctly describe..
I am still working class, I was working class in management, I was working class running my own business.
All my children are professionals,They describe themselves as working class,they are proud of their working class roots, as they are their working class father.
Class still exists, when the day comes that management uses the same crapper as the workers, well, I will happy.
No you weren’t and no they are not. Working class roots, sure.
Jeremy you be what you think you are, and I’ll do the same.
I thought you’d say that Phill. Words have meaning. I can call myslef a seraph doesn’t make me one.
Was that an MUA-unionised business Phill?
Ryutin I am nearly seventy, I was not in the MUA all my working life.
I was a soldier for three years, I have also been a copper there. But I didn’t mention that did I?
I also have tickets think about what they may be used for.
I ran my own business for ten years. I can not tell you what that was, because it would give me away to who I am. No not Maxwell Smart.
Not that it matters. Roots are roots.
Hate to slag a man’s personal friends but politically speaking Shorten is the trademarked Nasty Little Man. If you don’t understand why he is unelectable (like Brumby in Victoria) you don’t understand why the ALP is in trouble.
His electorate is near to my home and I may go to the trouble of running against him, or helping someone else do so, much in the spirit of the Ellis campaign against Bishop.
Well this is a little unfair to Brumby who at least seemed to mean well. And he only lost the last election in Victoria by one seat….but the thing is he should have won it handily.
People didn’t like him, he came across as “small”, trying to manipulate the electorate without understanding how to do it, and without enough sense of humour to get away with being caught out at that…he had never heard that we had better angels of our nature, I don’t think he had even heard that we had dark angels. He appealed to the dwarves of our nature, and couldn’t understand why that didn’t work. It works for the Liberals…
I felt for Brumby on the night he lost government, he couldn’t believe or understand it.
I know Shorten well and you’re wrong. Brumby was unlucky because interest rates went up in the suburbs he had to hold two weeks before the election and he was spending money on his country seats. And he lost, by what, one seat and a hundred votes?
Do not defame a good man.
By the rules of this blog you do not call ‘nasty’ someone you have not met and do not know and you are warned. Do it again and you will be banned for life.
Ask any disabled person if Shorten is ‘nasty’.
Fuck you.
There are a million disabled people and their carers and they love him and he is a nasty man?
Take a walk.
Get out of my sight.
Fuck you right back, Bob….in sexist metaphor of course because you should be so lucky.
Yeah Shorten is one of your buddies like Pearson. And Abbot. “Quate nace when you get to know them”… As it happens I know quite a few disabled people. More than you I’m thinking. Some of them were with me picketting Shortens office on Xmas Eve. But don’t let reality intrude, who could possibly benefit from that?
By the rules of this blog one is not supposed to lie? Politically speaking which is all I know or care about Shorten he is an arsewipe. In fact if arswipes had arses he would be an arsewipes arsewipe.
He represents everything wrong with the ALP. Grovelling to the Yanks to make him Prime Minister. Yech. You think because of his union background he has working class credibility but it is the other way round. We know him and his like.
As for Brumby, again I know I know and you don’t. Anyone-but-Brumby was the prevailing sentiment when he opposed Kennet….ALP had to get rid of him to win. Then he snuck into the premiership with the clueless arrogance of his type and Victorians had to chuck out the ALP government to get rid of him.
But the ALP is too clueless to understand. And despite your virtues you are part of the problem.
In case you hadn’t gathered this I couldn’t give a flying fuck if you ban me or not. I use my own name, I’m easy to find if anyone wants to talk to me, I have plenty else to do if they don’t.
Eventually I will meet Bill Shorten because of various reasons. No doubt I will find him charming. I spent the afternoon with his mate Andrew Landeryou at the Melbourne by-election…we were handing out htvs at the same booth, me for the public housing candidate and him for an “independent Liberal” who the ALP were covertly supporting to divert preferences from the Greens.
I liked Andrew Landeryou. He was friendly to my young son. He was courteous enough to say on his blog that he liked me. Doesn’t stop him from being a political enemy. Andrew Landeryou understands that and so I’m sure does Bill Shorten. But you Bob, you do not.
Bob was right in the strategic sense about Abbott. You need definitive ammo before you can hang someone. Such as being a Jesuit and schlepping your PA. Or worse, a pedophile protector. Your accusations against Shorten are fairly vague for someone who doesn’t know exactly what you are referring to.
I think its “schtupping” is what you are looking for. Schlepping, is German, to schlep, geschleppt is to carry, drag, tote
I think in High German you would tend to use tragen.
Schlep I would bet has Yiddish roots.
Viennese shares many words with Yiddish, and if I concentrate I can follow a conversation in Yiddish.
You don’t want to be schlepped R1. Dworkin may have been schlepped once or twice though.
I collaborated with Shorten on a lot of his Disability speeches and I’m keen to know what disabled person is against him. To most he is their hero.
I do not know how you can find ‘nasty’ someone you have not met.
If you can explain this I will let you stay.
It is the politics Bob, as I have been careful to explain repreatedly. Him personally I do not know. Like most of the rest of Australia.
I don’t like Shorten for the same reason I don’t like Gillard. Except that unlike Gillard he seems to know what he is doing.
You want a list of cripples who don’t like Shorten? He owns them does he?
You don’t want Rhinehart to rule the country but you think we should vote for Shorten? Wow. As you might say.
But I’m glad toi have tested out the Nasty Little Man line and found it touched a nerve. Might well use it in September.
I’m curious!
What was the cause that drew you and my fellow disable-os to be outside Bill Shortens office on Xmas Eve?
Bob’s right by the way,Bill Shorten in his role as Parliamentary Secretary for Disabilities etc very highly regarded in the ‘circles’ I move in.
Extremely well organised in keeping those who wanted to be in the loop with news and progress.
Best ever.
Cuts to single parents’ pension.
Good luck to the people in the circles you move in, I guess none of them have been forced to go door to ask people to buy handbags “to provide a job for people like me”.
Sometimes Bob is right. Not this time.
The cuts to the single parent allowance I don’t agree with, but Bill Shorten isnt the Minister responsible for that is he.
As for the rest of your comment all I can say is Que?
The circles are easy to move in if one of my tyres is deflated.
It was an act of Parliament. He is the apparently most capable and ambitious member of the ruling group, and so the target of choice. Politics is a tough game.
If all you can say id “que” you conversation must pall sometimes unless you hang out with ducks.
This bit JD is the Que.’been forced to go door to ask people to buy handbags “to provide a job for people like me”.’WTF?
My conversation is usually with people that don’t talk in riddles.
Work reqirements for partially disabled.
Being forced by a job search provider to beg from door.
Not meant to be a riddle.
Rinehart should have her wealth appropriated by the state.
The wealth this women has accumulated for doing F.A. is obscene.
The good this money could do freed up into the economy, needs no imagination.
Building a few hospitals would be a start.
“They don’t quite get that the socialist aim is not to exalt the working class but to abolish it.”
Yea well don’t include me in that throw away line.
Better stick with capitalism then Phill. A socialist society is by definition one without classes.
The fact is, working class means just that, the people who actually do the manual labour.
Even communist ideology still needs a working class.You are being a pedant me thinks.
No. A surgeon does manual labour, dirty disgusting manual labour, or so most would find it.
But he or she is not held in contempt for that. he or she belongs to the same class as business people and senior managers and theoretical physicists and judges.
Work will always need to be done, a special class of people to do it need not.
No class system? It might not be based on an aristocracy but what about the ‘squattocracy’. Those that have inherited the moneywithout having lifeted a finger.
How anyone can say that Australia doesn’t have a class system and yet pay for kids into private schools? THose snobby school uniforms. No class, come now.
Seeing as who represents the ALP and who it represents has caused comment, here are some thoughts by others on the subject…..
Barry Cohen April 2012
Most seats in NSW are now decided by the state executive. The one decision branch members had a say in was abolished. They could no longer choose their state or federal MPs.
That ensured Labor MPs entering parliament did so without the varied backgrounds of their predecessors. In the 1990s, I wrote in The Australian that apart from three MPs the rest came from only six backgrounds: lawyers, teachers, public servants, ministerial advisers, trade union officials and party apparatchiks. When Labor heavies claimed it had always been thus I pointed out that in 1969, when I entered parliament, there were all of the above plus six doctors, three police, two journalists, small-business people, a couple of farmers, a chemist, two accountants and many others. There were 17 occupations”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/here-comes-a-challenging-renovation-for-labor/story-e6frgd0x-1226339214140
Nick Dyrenfurth
“Yet representativeness was the raison d’etre of Labor politics. Only worker-politicians, so the theory went, could be trusted to put the interests of their own ilk first. As the first proposal for a “Labor” party put it in 1884, the workers “never can be as faithfully represented as by their own. Their opinions are only fully understood by constant, in fact, daily association; their needs can only be learned by the fullest expressions of fellow-feeling. Class questions require class knowledge to state them, and class sympathies to fight for them.”
History also shows us that the best Labor governments were occupationally diverse entities. Andrew Fisher’s reformist 1910-13 administration boasted several miners (including Fisher), a US-born insurance salesman, a carpenter, hatter, engine drivers, journalists, wharfies and one half-blind ex-wrestler. The government’s attorney-general, Billy Hughes, worked as a cook and general labourer before running a small mixed shop mending umbrellas. He qualified as a lawyer after entering parliament”.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/its-time-labor-went-back-to-the-workers/story-e6frgd0x-1226173497722
Barry Cohen again
It started the minute (Richardson) became state secretary and reached its apogee when he arrived in Canberra in 1983. Richardson, Robert Ray and Gerry Hand institutionalised factionalism so that it left all power in the hands of a few: them.
……………… Whatever the shortcomings of Labor MPs, counting is not one of them.
They saw that every ministerial position was selected by the factional leaders together with the speaker, president of the Senate, chairs of committees and even overseas trips.
It wasn’t long before they were also deciding pre-selections, particularly in safe seats. Caucus quickly realised that if they wanted to climb the greasy pole they had better obey the wishes of Richo and Co.
The power of faction leaders grew immensely. When I departed the ministry, if Richo said “fart” all would cry, “Which direction?”
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/opinion/faction-bosses-will-sink-labor/story-e6frgd0x-1226044649803
Might I add that all this also explains something:
“Eddie Obeid”
I find the inverted commas most peculiar.
What are you implying by your use of them?
That he is less than human?
What?
“Eddie Obeid” is a ‘type’ here, not a person
Ryutin, Jesus well done.
You saved me a lot of work.
The rank & file of the party are well aware of the facts.
I think the Eddie Obeid connection is a long bow, the Liberal party as others do, have their own corruption problems.
It is the rigidity of the factional SYSTEM that allows this gross corruption once the right manipulator comes along. Liberal OR Labor, whether it be ‘factions’ of business, unions or religions. There were no checks and balances. Poor oversight from those leading the Party in NSW – and dangers in any other party - now revealed - and they all now have no excuse.
All thumbs, that was a very intelligent comment, altho likely to be misunderstood.
The Working Classes, now de- unionised, live in the slums of Manila and Bangkok and we don’t think of them except to think how skinny, brown and well, Asian they look.
Like the Aborigines of two centuries ago, you feel our Dreamtime could end suddenly, also.
Paul it is the Internationalism that has failed and the divide and conquer that has succeeded.
I remind myself everyday of those people in the slums of Manila and Bangkok, I have photos of them on my I-Phone. I look at the return on my Super scheme and know I am doing the right thing. I am a compassionate Socialist.
“Freedom is merely privilege extended, unless enjoyed by one and all.” Billy Bragg.
You’re right about our Dreamtime. I can’t wait, this guilt is too big for its kennel, I have to go to the country and release it into the wild, last time it traveled seventeen thousand kilometers and still found me.
“Not that it matters. Roots are roots.”
It depends on who is doing the rooting.
Phill I regretted that comment and went for some air. It seems that the imposters who post here got me off track for an instant. Life experience shows in words without anyone having to anonymously list who we are or what we are I suppose. Multiple occupations show you a lot of life – and people – and you can’t wing that.
All I have to do now is to convince you that the husk of the ALP now has nothing to do with traditional Labour (and is incapable of being reformed) and I might get you thinking, as I do, that until there is a new party the old traditions will not be represented. Unrealistic to expect perhaps, but then no really serious person could see the Greens as anything other than a Trojan Horse - not an alternative - and those lovely-sounding Green “policies” listed by FW the other day left out the deaths, instant or slow, of multiple working occupations in this country. I am not going to live in the stone age for the sake of their consciences and, unlike some, I am not prepared to let industries die out (mining, smelting, manufacturing) crushed by non-Green-controlled international competition and just wait for the final overthrow of these dreamer’s foolishness by the associated outrage. Besides they are the rich anyway, comfortable in their plush joints and well able to afford the massive increases in electricity costs that ordinary Little People have to face.
Phil. M Ryutin is the most intelligent writer on this blog. I am way down the list so I know my place. His prose is occasionally convoluted and dense but stick with it, he knows his stuff.
I want to second his views. They are most sensible. Why he wastes his time here I cannot fathom. Maybe its charity. Or craziness. Or a bit of both like me. I will have the Greens marked down on the ballot sheet way below Labor. That’s for sure.
My neighbor a good man decided to stand as a candidate for the Greens. I was shocked but never told him my views. He invited me to his election victory party. I went but was very nervous. How do you tell someone that you detest their politics. I;m far too polite. Thats my failing. He never got more than 500 votes.
Eventually he found out in the next election cycle when he was handing out cards for the Greens. He saw me take the literature of a Liberal party volunteer and his face fell. A shame I felt, but the truth needs to come out. He never talks to me now.
Ryutin can’t spell Labor and has yet to twig to the fact that not everyone has a subscription to the Australian. It makes it difficult when you can’t get past the paywall to his links, as much as I hanker to get Murdoch’s views on things.
I understand (and spell my words the way I do) to show the difference between the Australian LabOr Party - which does not represent labOUr any more and an Australian LabOUr Party which would (if it existed anymore) represent labOUr. I do it quite consciously.
On another point, you are an honest person on Murdoch:
You dont actually read it unlike so many of the supposed critics who can’t help themselves.
Frank I don’t take it that serious. My God one of my best mates is a Liberal party supporter.
I tell himc not to argue with me and I wont punch the shit out of him.
Just joking. He is a good mate.
We have spent long nights together pissed as farts, putting the world right.
Ryutin is not stupid, he just sees the world different to me.
At the end of the day Frank, the world will turn. For how much longer?
Hilarious Frank! Rootin’ is a poor superannuated old bugger with nothing better to do than to annoy those who seek to discuss the issues sensibly (and fuck over the conservatives with parody and satire).
We would hardly expect either of you to favour Green policies; I doubt you are in their demographic.
But if either of you think anything you say affects anyone here you are both seriously lacking in brain cells.
You are right about one thing. I have been putting myself about too much here lately. Habits are hard to break I know, but this has been a target-rich area.
But you make plain yet another delusion of yours. Not only are your hysterical, anti-democratic and free speech-inhibiting comments hardly satire, your attempts to ban alternative voices show insincerity anyway. In addition, my posts, even in answer to you, are not FOR you or to people like you.
They are for people who have open minds.
The prosecution rests
Ryutin, I am on to the party. I know who “I think” is corrupt. I certainly know who used the party to get on.It’s not rocket science.
But, at the end of the day what is left? The conservatives are no friends of the working class people, that is not even up for debate, with me.
They have form, you know that, the information on what they are is locked away in every library in the western world. You only have to look for it.
Every thing we take for granted, has been fought for by working class people. Conservatives by their very nature, have to be always dragged into the future.
If this planet was able to sustain the current growth rate forever, I may be inclined to go over to the dark side but it can’t.
It will soon be in the grip of another financial crisis,and is slowly sliding into the abyss. The cause, the remedy, I will leave to others.But I do know this, it can’t go on forever.
This is not some utopian dream, a brain fart, a thought bubble last night, it has been on the cards for some time now, the world has had enough.
When the Chinese/Indian economy busts, it is going to end in a lot of tears. This is especially so for us down under,as you already know. We make nothing and are a service industry, a quarry.
Yes the Labor party for some is no better, but as I have said before for every bent bastard in its ranks, there are good people.
Hope springs eternal.
But just for argument’s sake Phill, if it turns out that the working class in huge numbers vote for the Tories in September.
Would you consider them traitors,dupes, deluded, misinformed, naive, brainwashed, ignorant?
You see my dilemma?
Jeremy was right about class consciousness being like racism with a hefty dose of paternalism. I’ll take that away with me today.
Class consciousness is only like racism if class is treated illegitimately like a quasi-race….
If the working lcass votes wrong I guess the ALP can follow Brecht’s advice and elect another. (Right, Bob?)
Deluded mostly. Lets face it, your average Joe is not that political.
What’s in it for me?
As always.
Phil, exponential growth is the cornerstone of Western Democracies.
It will keep going up up up and be continually propped up until the inevitable hits the fan. Maybe we can put it off for another 10 years by borrowing a bit more…until we retire and some other bugger - your child can deal with the mess or pass the parcel.
Thats how it works.
Don’t tell me you want to fix it?
Relax.
Just jack the debt ceiling up a bit higher and don’t talk about it. Easy.
When it blows, it will be like that asteroid in Russia. You can go “Wow! Thats cool! Lets post it up on Youtube.”
Until then, party on. Don’t feel any guilt. It is our birthright to burn the candles at both ends. We are living in the best of times. Enjoy it.
Frank if only it was that simple.
We are going down a hole, and there aint no turning back.