FW December 25, 2012 at 1:45 pm
Why didn’t Orwell win a Nobel Prize for Literature?
Bob Ellis December 25 at 2:51 pm
You have to be alive to win it, and his most famed work, Nineteen Eighty-four, came out a year before his death.
It doesn’t sound likely, but his whole career as a published writer was barely fourteen years, like, say, some current writer who began publishing magazine pieces and book reviews in 1998, brought out his first bad novel in 2001, his first book of reportage in 2004, his first great novel in 2007, his masterpiece in 2011, and died this Christmas Day.
Damien December 26 at 9:16 pm
I watched the very first episode and was so unimpressed that I vowed never to watch it again. I could not understand the fuss about it at all, and still don’t.
Doug Quixote December 25 at 3:03 pm
Regarding the Nobel Prize :
“[The main problem is] the Nobel jury. Let me explain.
There are eighteen of them, members of an organization called the Swedish Academy, which back at the end of the 19th century was given the task of awarding the Nobel. At the time two members suggested it was a mistake to accept the job. The Academy’s founding brief, back in 1896, was to promote the “purity, strength, and sublimity of the Swedish language”. Was this compatible with choosing the finest oeuvre of “an idealistic tendency” from anywhere in the world?
All members are Swedish and most of them hold full time professorial jobs in Swedish universities. On the present jury there are just five women and no woman has ever held the presidency. Only one member was born after 1960. This is partly because you cannot resign from the Academy. It’s a life sentence. So there’s rarely any new blood. For the past few years, however, two members have refused to cooperate with deliberations for the prize because of previous disagreements, one over the reaction, or lack of it, to the fatwa against Salman Rushdie and the other over awarding the prize to Elfriede Jelinek, whom he felt was “chaotic and pornographic.”
It’s not unlikely that each year they are faced with reading two hundred books (this on top of their ordinary workloads). Of these books very few will be written in Swedish and only some will be available in Swedish translation; many will be in English, or available in English translation. But since the English and Americans notoriously don’t translate a great deal, some reading will have to be done in French, German or perhaps Spanish translations from more exotic originals.
Remember that we’re talking about poems as well as novels and they’re coming from all over the world, many intensely engaged with cultures and literary traditions of which the members of the Swedish Academy understandably know little. ”
Hardly surprising that Orwell did not win : not Swedish, probably not translated, not known to the Jury.
Orwell flashed across the firmament between 1937 and 1950, but beneath the Swedish radar.
Helvi December 26 at 7:36 am
DQ, ‘everyone’ in Sweden speaks English, and other languages as well.I would think that the members of the Academy can judge books written in English, French, German, Spanish, Italian and of course in any other Scandinavian language without need to translate them into Swedish….
Doug Quixote December 26 at 10:54 pm
In fairness I do agree Helvi, and perhaps it was not clear that I was quoting from Tim Parks’ review from the New York Review of Books.
To give equal time :
“May I, as a reader for decades of your journal, give a more factual background to Mr. Tim Parks´ article in your recent issue. This year’s laureate Tomas Tranströmer has been proposed, for years, by, among others, former laureates Joseph Brodsky, Seamus Heaney and Derek Walcott. In New York 2000, Susan Sontag told me
Tranströmer was the Swede most well known in the US. He is translated into sixty languages, there are cafés named after him in China and Slovenia.
And in Sweden we have all read and loved him since we were young.
The Nobel Committee consists of five members out of the rest of the Swedish Academy. By February we get about 220 suggestions from all round the world. By April we have concocted an ”expectancy” list of twenty. By May we get the Academy to approve a short list of five to be read during next four months. No one could get the prize without having been on the list for at least two years. Be sure we read a select group of American, Canadian, Australian writers continuously!
We have of course, Mr. Parks, read even Jellinek’s Greed though it was hard going. And so much else! For my part try to to read one book a day to keep ill health away. We master thirteen languages in the Academy but when we suspect a genius hidden in an unknown language we call on translators and oath-sworn experts to give us generous samples of that writer.
We go for an individual’s life’s work regardless of nation, gender, religion. We could, if need be, give it to Portugal or the US five times in a row, or to essayists, historians, children books writers. We do not have a human rights criterion. We award e.g. Orhan Pamuk for his outstanding novels and essays; then the award becomes politically interpreted.
In the committee we are obsessed readers since childhood and so have a rich background to judge from. None of us has a university job, we are all free writers with oour own manuscripts to take care of in between.”
Per Wästberg, President of the Nobel Committee for Literature, Stockholm.
I hope that helps to correct the record!
FW December 25 at 4:44 pm
Even so Pinter in 2005, strange? And 26 English writers out of 109 winners managed to slip beneath the Swedish Academy’s radar. Orwell could just as easily won it for his body of work or 1984. Or Animal Farm considering Hem won it for The Old Man and The Sea. I know Orwell is in good company – Joyce, Proust, Conrad, Baldwin, to name a few who didn’t have what it takes [“the person who shall have produced in the field of literature the most outstanding work in an ideal direction”], but I can’t help wondering if Orwell’s politics hit an unknown nerve [A Clergyman's Daughter; The Road To Wigan Pier; Down And Out In Paris Homage To Catalonia] – very few social essayists/writers have gone to the belly of the beast themselves and exposed it so powerfully. Maybe Celine, Bukowski. That’s why it remains a mystery to me.
Polybius December 25 at 5:55pm
While I agree with much of DQ’s post, I must say I was never so happy to see anybody win any sort of prize than I was to see Tomas Transtromer win the 2011 Nobel prize for Literature. He’s one of the greats.
Were it not for the extraordinary provinciality of anglophone cultures, he would be better known here.
FW December 25 at 9:57 pm
Where would you start with Tomas Transfomer?
Doug Quixote December 26 at 5:49 am
Try some of this for interest :
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/11/books/review/tomas-transtromers-poems-and-the-art-of-translation.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
He may lose something in translation – see ref. below to avoid delay to this post.
Doug Quixote December 26 at 5:56 am
Men in overalls the same color as earth rise from a ditch.
It’s a transitional place, in stalemate, neither country nor city.
Construction cranes on the horizon want to take the big leap,
but the clocks are against it.
Concrete piping scattered around laps at the light with cold tongues.
Auto-body shops occupy old barns.
Stones throw shadows as sharp as objects on the moon surface.
And these sites keep on getting bigger
like the land bought with Judas’ silver: “a potter’s field for
burying strangers.”
(‘Outskirts’, Transtromer)
It doesn’t do much for me; but perhaps something is lost in translation.
“Once there was a shock
that left behind a long, shimmering comet tail.
It keeps us inside. It makes the TV pictures snowy.
It settles in cold drops on the telephone wires.
One can still go slowly on skis in the winter sun
through brush where a few leaves hang on.
They resemble pages torn from old telephone directories.
Names swallowed by the cold.
It is still beautiful to hear the heart beat
but often the shadow seems more real than the body.
The samurai looks insignificant
beside his armor of black dragon scales.”
(‘After a Death’)
Much more interesting, but nothing exceptional, in my opinion. But he is Swedish, and they managed to ignore him, vis a vis Nobel Prize, until he is 81.
FW December 25 at 10:59 pm
And can I bore you for a minute, Polybius? I have a passion for Knut Hamsun. My favourtie writer. Won the Nobel Prize for GROWTH OF THE SOIL, a saga of the meaning of life surrounding hard honest toil and the true path and values held in a close relationship with the simple and natural. His is a rejection of life’s true values being eroded away by a modern artificial existence.
But for me his earlier works – HUNGER, MYSTERIES, PAN, and VICTORIA; created when he was caught between an Oslo intellectual circle and a life of an angry and hungry young man, an itinerate rousabout, fisherman and traveller, redefine the erosion of dignity in the modern world and false games between the sexes.
No-one but no-one writes on this edge like Hamsun does. When my son read HUNGER he said he didn’t realise it wasn’t a comtemporary novel. Norway didn’t know what to do with Hamsun, their greatest writer at the end of WW2. A Nazi sympathiser [he saw Britain, not Germany, as the worst of colonialist oppressors; and hoped Hitler would liberate Europe and the common people in a return to a truer state of natural and meaningful existence]; so they put him away in an institution in the hope they could prove him insane.
Which leaves a real dilemma. How much should you judge a person’s writings on what you know about their real lives?
AoT December 26 at 7:48 am
What’s being “judged” is the quality of the writing. However removing the man from the words is an almost too difficult task because it suggests that biography doesn’t count.
And maybe it should.
I think the writing is everything.
And then sometimes I think the man is everything.
Is it possible to separate the work from the man?
I don’t believe so. It seems both an impossible and foolish enterprise.
But it’s a difficult question nonetheless.
And a good one.
If the question is “where do judgements begin and end?” then of course it would be with the man.
Unless we ask: “what informs the work – the life or the imagination?”
It’s here, I believe, that the real answer lies.
Or if not the answer then at least, at the very least, a starting point.
Considering this question in the time it took to drink my cup of tea I would say that it begins and ends with the man – that all work must be viewed through that distorting lens of a life lived.
Polybius December 26 at 8:42 am
Unless we ask: “what informs the work – the life or the imagination?”
It’s here, I believe, that the real answer lies.
Or if not the answer then at least, at the very least, a starting point.
Yes, I think you’ve hit upon something. The life and the work infuse each other but they are not the same thing.
But it’s such a complex relationship.
Pound is an interesting case. His influence on modern poetry is incalculable. He said some truly disgusting things over Italian radio during the war.
When you think of Pound you think of him talking, talking, talking – Gertrude Stein’s “village explainer”.
However, in the last ten years of his life he fell silent. He ceased writing entirely. He spoke only very rarely. He granted a handful of very short interviews to journalists. This is what he said in one of them:
I have lived all my life believing that I knew something. And then a strange day came and I realised that I knew nothing, that I knew nothing at all. And so words have become empty of meaning….
It is something I have come to through suffering. Yes, through an experience of suffering….
I have come too late to a state of total uncertainty, where I am conscious only of doubt….
I do not work any more. I do nothing. I fall into lethargy, and I contemplate….
Everything that I touch, I spoil. I have blundered always.
AoT December 26 at 10:44 am
Polybius,
“Pound is an interesting case”
What do you think is the relationship between Pound”s silence and the question of biography and/or imagination?
“The life and the work infuse each other but they are not the same thing.”
How would one go about separating them?
Or if not that then recognising differences?
Polybius December 25 at 11:57 pm
Try The Great Enigma – new collected poems, translated by Robin Fulton and published by new directions press.
Here’s one that got into my head when I was seventeen, and I never could get it out again:
TRACKS
2 am: moonlight. The train has stopped
out in the middle of the plain. Far away, points of light in a town,
flickering coldly at the horizon.
As when a man has gone into a dream so deep
he’ll never remember having been there
when he comes back to his room.
As when someone has gone into an illness so deep
everything his days were becomes a few flickering points, a swarm,
cold and tiny at the horizon.
The train is standing quite still.
2 am: bright moonlight, few stars.
I have never read Hamsun, but your post has made me curious, and now I’ll hunt some out.
How much should you judge a person’s writings on what you know about their real lives?
This is an extremely interesting question. For myself, I would say not at all, trying to ignore the dizzying feeling that comes.
After all, Celine wrote some vile things about Jews, but he also wrote Journey to the End of the Night and Death on the Instalment Plan.
Ezra Pound likewise spewed poison, but then wrote some great poems while they kept him in a cage in Pisa.
If you want to complicate the notion of the writer’s personality even further, check out Fernando Pessoa. Find a copy of The Book of Disquiet and you will have a reading experience unlike any other.
Bob Ellis December 26 at 4:54 am
Shakespeare, Dickens, Orwell, T.S. Eliot and Anthony Powell seem in some part anti-Semitic too. Joyce anti-Catholic. Sinclair Lewis anti-Revivalist Protestantism. Gore Vidal mocked Saint Paul in Live From Golgotha, and Confucius in Creation. I put the boot into Seventh-Day Adventists in The Nostradamus Kid.
I don’t see why it is wrong to criticise a religion if it seems to you to be wrong in some regard. Woody Allen and Joseph Heller were very harsh on Jews. The most anti-Semitic film since those of Goebbels was A Serious Man by the Coen brothers. It’s a question that has been over-egged by Zionism — and of course the heinous wrong and unimaginable evil of the Holocaust — but the criticism of a way of life and a way of thinking is something we all have a right to attempt. Larkin was pro-Nazi during World War 2, but this does not make any of his verse less worth reading, and savouring.
It should be a non-issue. But it isn’t.
And it’s a pity.
Polybius December 26 at 8:24 am
‘ I don’t see why it is wrong to criticise a religion if it seems to you to be wrong in some regard.’
No disagreement there – which is why religious anti-vilification laws make me very uneasy indeed.
M Ryutin December 26 at 10:20 am
Ah, you jumped correctly (or just stood still I suppose) Bob. No, you don’t have to be homosexual to write about gays (as some say) – what next? Men unable to write female characters?
Is Pound or anyone else to be airbrushed from history and their output devalued due to personal lives? Or, do he have a Marxist-only (and thus half-hearted and wrong) view of DH Lawrence – as Leavis showed?
Fortunately that went out by the 1950’s – or so we thought. Literature can lead its own life in the hands of a writer methinks, no matter what the personal background or political leanings (no socialist realism in ANY form please, I have read ‘Mother’ the Origin of that Species and it is just ‘history’ now). I don’t want to know (although I do) about Dostoevsky’s tragedies and life’s ups and downs, I just want to read the brilliant interplay between Raskolnikov and Porfiry Petrovich, thanks very much.
Conrad WAS a sailor writing in a second language and wrote about some things he knew, but can any mere sailor write Nostromo and create its characters or write the storm scene from Nigger of the Narcissus?
M Ryutin December 26 at 10:52 am
Oh, and ‘prizes’ mean absolutely nothing! Neither do critics’ views. I really think that only the public ‘vote’ means anything and some of the greatest stories are of the failures of critics, academics and publishers to recognise the public’s potential to appreciate literature, drama or anything else.
Bob Ellis December 26 at 11:13 am
And, on the other hand, Bryce Courtenay.
Polybius December 26 at 11:29 am
Prizes may mean something or nothing, as might the public ‘vote’.
Edward Bulwer-Lytton was far more popular writer than either Thackeray or George Eliot; I trust you’re not going to sit there and attempt to keep a straight face while you claim that he was a better novelist than either of them?
If you are then you will probably find a copy of Godolphin or The Last Days of Pompei in some cob-webbed corner of Project Gutenberg.
Happy holiday reading.
M Ryutin December 26 at 3:54 pm
I would in no way, straight or other face, think of putting ‘out there’ comparisons of Eliot (or anyone else) with Bulwer-Lytton even if I had read anything of the latter, but how fair is it to directly compare those two anyway?
Novels of different eras are difficult for me anyway, I take them in their context and see if I like them. How do you properly compare Pickwick, Middlemarch, Nostromo, On the Road or Bonfires of the Vanities? One of the first of the ‘faction’ novels was one that I simply could not put down for 100 pages or so, but how prominent is Jackal’ on Great Books lists? Or university reading lists?
As for the rest, I have never read a single thing by JK Rowling, (or by Bryce Courtenay, Bob). I don’t judge Rowling or Courtney on their literary merit – or “non-merit”. Perhaps they were never going to pass critical muster, but many millions of people have read (and paid for) these books and who knows how many people went on to look at other books, perhaps even some passing critical muster. In any case there is a market of millions for books of every kind and I am not about to say that the reader’s choices are anything other than good ones for them AND writing.
Polybius December 26 at 4:21 pm
Eliot and Bulwer-Lytton were roughly contemporaneous, Eliot’s dates being 1819-1880, and Bulwer-Lytton 1803-1873. In my opinion, it is not unreasonable to compare.
I think my point stands: there is no external authority which can guarantee a book’s worth or otherwise, whether that be a prize or popular acclaim. Who remembers Henryk Sienkiewicz (Nobel Prize for Literature 1905) now? About the same number of people who’ll remember Bryce Courtenay in ten years time. Not that that’s any indictment of either of them.
Anton Chekhov, as well as being an exquisite writer, was famous for having his head screwed on. Here’s his take:
I divide all literary works into two categories: Those I like and those I don’t like. No other criterion exists for me.
Polybius December 26 at 12:16 pm
@AoT
My answer is provisional and incomplete and probably unsatisfactory. I am feeling my way into the question and the way ahead seems dark.
To be honest, I am unsure of “…the relationship between Pound”s silence and the question of biography and/or imagination?”. But this quote fromThe Last Rower by C. David Hayman seems to bear upon the question. It describes a meeting between Pound and Allen Ginsberg in 1967:
Pound looked away, smiling, pleased. Ginsberg went on. He spoke again of Pound’s over-riding influence on twentieth-century verse. But the old man would have none of it. “The intention was bad,” he said.
“That’s the trouble – anything I’ve done has been an accident. Any good has been spoiled by my intentions, the preoccupation with irrelevant and stupid things.” And then very slowly and clearly, he added, “But the worst mistake I made was that stupid, suburban prejudice of anti-Semitism. All along, that spoiled everything.”
“Ah, it’s lovely to hear you say that,” Ginsberg responded. “Well no,” he went on, “because anyone with any sense can see it as a humour, in that sense part of the drama. You manifest the process of thoughts, make a model of the consciousness. Anti-Semitism is your fuck-up, like not liking Buddhists, but it’s part of the model and the great accomplishment was to make a working model of your mind. Nobody cares if it’s Ezra Pound’s mind but it’s a mind like everybody’s mind.”
Bob Ellis has already mentioned Phillip Larkin in the context of this discussion. Consider the poem below, one of his more famous ones:
High Windows
When I see a couple of kids
And guess he’s fucking her and she’s
Taking pills or wearing a diaphragm,
I know this is paradise.
Everyone old has dreamed of all their lives–
Bonds and gestures pushed to one side
Like an outdated combine harvester,
And everyone young going down the long slide
To happiness, endlessly. I wonder if
Anyone looked at me, forty years back,
And thought, That’ll be the life;
No God any more, or sweating in the dark
About hell and that, or having to hide
What you think of the priest.
He And his lot will all go down the long slide
Like free bloody birds. And immediately
Rather than words comes the thought of high windows:
The sun-comprehending glass
And beyond it, the deep blue air, that shows
Nothing, and is nowhere, and is endless.
If you look through Larkin’s letters and biography, you’ll find much that is wry, snide and snarky, together with some things that are downright ugly and offensive.
But look at that last stanza, the sense of lift it has. The feeling of opening out into the air. it’s a moment of transcendence, and such moments are not uncommon in his poetry.
But where were they in his life? Did his lovers see that part of him? Or did he require the window of his work to look through before he could see the deep blue sky?
Phillip K. Dick wrote a great essay called How to Build a Universe That Doesn’t Fall Apart Two Days Later, and it seems to me that that’s what writers are really in the business of doing. And of course, much of the raw material is drawn out of their opinions and histories and thoughts and wispy things that flit through their minds when they’re hurrying through the rain to buy a coffee. But the imagination send out tendrils to make contact with something else altogether.
But here we begin to slide uncomfortably into mysticism, which is an uncongenial sort of place.
How would one go about separating them?
At this point, I don’t know. But I think there are some very interesting sights to see when you begin to look for the places where they might intersect.
But I’m interested in what your thoughts might be.
AoT December 26 at 2:10 pm
Polybius, thank you for your post.
(To use your two examples) I find that the intermingling of “snarkiness” and “transcendence” to be an excellent description of man himself. I suppose my interest would be in those writers who are, above all else, “human”. By that I mean I would be suspicious of a writer, painter etc, who I felt to be (consciously, overtly) subordinating his life to his work; referencing only the palatable, the acceptable: citing only the masque.
I also feel, like Mr Ellis, that it should be a “non-issue”. But I feel that way for what I suspect are different reasons. I believe it should be a “non-issue” because rather than trying to separate the man from the work, relegating the bad and privileging the good, one should seek to understand both, as a dovetail composite, as an inseparable entity.
The (seeming) contradictions in the life of say, Pound the man and Pound the writer and Pound the anti-Semite, are to me no contradictions at all.
They are all essential features of the man – who, in this case, happens to be a writer.
I certainly would agree with you that the interface (between man and work) would be an interesting place. But is it a place of clear frontiers, or even of defined camps as a prerequisite for clear frontiers?
I’d say no.
I was looking at the architecture of Luis Barragán the other day, and one of his quotes seems appropriate here:
“I don’t divide architecture, landscape and gardening; to me they are one.”
Polybius December 26 at 3:22 pm
I believe it should be a “non-issue” because rather than trying to separate the man from the work, relegating the bad and privileging the good, one should seek to understand both, as a dovetail composite, as an inseparable entity.
Yes, I agree with that. I also agree that the interface between writer and work is not a place of clean frontiers, or defined camps as a prerequisite to the same – it’s more like a slag-heap collapsing in all directions.
Hey, they’re putting Journey on the rails again.
What a feeling it gives me.
A lot of things have happened in fourteen years.
If I weren’t under so much pressure, forced to earn my living, I can tell you right now I’d suppress the whole thing, I shouldn’t let a single line through.
Everything gets taken the wrong way. I’ve been the cause of too much evil.
just think of all the deaths, the hatreds around me. . . the treachery . . . the sewer it adds up to . . . the monsters . . .
Oh, you’ve got to be blind and deaf!
You’ll say: but it’s not Journey! It’s your crimes that are killing you, Journey had nothing to do with it. You yourself have been your ruin! your Bagatelles your abominable lingo! your imaging, clowning villainy! The law’s clutching you, strangling you? Hell, what are you complaining about? You jerk!
Oh, many thanks! Many thanks! I’m raging! Fuming! Panting! With Hatred! Hypocrites! Jugheads! You can’t fool me! It’s for Journey that they’re after me! Under the axe I’ll bellow it! between ‘them’ and me it’s to the finish! to the guts! Too foul to talk about . . . pissed with Mystique! What a business
-Louis Ferdinand Celine
from the preface to the 1952 edition of Journey to the End of the Night
Polybius December 26 at 3:25 pm
@AoT
And thanks for introducing me to Luis Barragan, by the way.
Doug Quixote December 26 at 3:56 pm
You do not need to agree with a person’s politics to appreciate his or her works of art.
Kipling was a miserable old conservative imperialist; Oscar Wilde was an outrageous homosexual libertarian, Pound a fascist anti-semite, Orwell a socialist, Eliot “a Catholic cast of mind, a Calvinist heritage, and a Puritanical temperament” (from Eliot himself) and perhaps anti-semitic as well.
But all of them wrote excellent poetry.
Poetry strikes at the emotions : it engages us at a level other than the cerebral. It is said that a writer must suffer for his art, and very little great art comes from the rich and comfortable.
Mozart might be an exception, but his greatest works came as he approached mortality, as they did for Schubert.
Any thoughts, dear readers?
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