Now that the threat of Nauru has quite predicably tripled the daily average number of boat arrivals, I now ask Tony Abbott, does he have any better ideas? Torpedoes? Helicopter-gunships? Cluster bombs?
Will he now tell the House what his second thoughts are?
We’re all very eager to hear.
Name:
TPVs, plus no family reunion if you show up uninvited.
Nauru alone is doomed to fail as a deterrent and it has. The ALP excel at failure, because they never believed it was a problem to begin with.
800 dead and $5,000,000,000+ later proves the outcome of their vain decision to scrap what John Howard fixed.
Well said.
TPVs proved to be unacceptably cruel for a whole host of reasons, some people were sent back and killed for example, and in part lost Howard the election.
It was an election issue remember.
Cruel, perhaps.
TPV is a deterrent, and effective.
Keeping self-selecting migrants out was an election winner for two elections.
My friends the Bakhtiyaris were sent back and killed. Approve of that, do you?
Mourning never ends.
There are 50,000 or so unwanted migrants here every year, some stay for decades.
Asylum seekers don’t need an invitation though, they have the right to come and ask for help.
@marilyn – 50,000 unwarranted migrants a year? Bullshit, and you know it. There are 50-60,000 in total. Huge difference. Mostly, it’s a floating population of backpackers, plus a lot of Asian overstayers. But 50,000 each and ever year? Either you don’t understand simple figures, or you want to distort the figures.
From the Tory side of politics in Australia, Clive Palmer has the only sensible and cost effective solution to stopping the boats. Make it possible for refugees to fly here safely, then the business model for the dangerous boat journey is broken.
Given the dollar figure you state above, if we used that money to be generous instead…. It would go a very long way.
Just let anyone in the world who want to fly in do so?
You don’t believe self-selection migration is a problem. That means you cannot solve it. And this is the mess we are now in. Good for you being “generous” with money we are borrowing from China.
Rudd and Gillard should hold a big “Sorry Day” about their waste of lives and money… the day after the next Federal Election will do nicely.
“Just let anyone in the world who want to fly in do so?”
Yep, that is the only civilized option.
With 7 billion people on the planet and increasing exponentially, the concept of borders is delusional.
There is something in Physics called Boyle’s Law, to do with pressure and volume of a gas, but basically states that the gas will fill the volume rather than meekly staying in one corner. It has no choice. Humans also frequently have no choice.
The only way humanity can maintain civilization into the future is for us to become cooperative, and stop wasting money on wars and ‘border protection’.etc. The only real border currently is the upper atmosphere, we cannot move to other planets yet.
Resistance is Futile, eh?
Where has it worked?
Cite ten instances.
“Resistance is Futile”. I presume you are quoting from Star Trek, something the Borg said. The Borg being an inherently evil species that took over your free will and property/planets.
Are you saying that refugees are inherently evil and want to do the same as the Borg? What is your evidence?
What I am saying is that if you treat the inevitable influx of refugees in a civilized and compassionate manner, then they are more likely to reciprocate. There is plenty of evidence for this supposition.
Nope, never seen anything Star Trek beyond the first 20 minutes of the first movie.
I meant “resistance is futile” towards your wonderful Utopia.
Cite ten instances of when it worked.
Make it six.
What utter arrant nonsense. John Howard couldn’t fix a plate of bacon and eggs.
That he stopped the boats is a myth, that the public swallowed that line of bollocks hook line and sinker is the only fact about John Howard.
But in your case the jetty you were fishing off.
As was stated by DeadBoofy it pains me, but Clive Palmer has been the only one to put up a solution thus far.
Whatevs, ALP/Greens turfed out within the year. Happy days.
“Happy Days”. Does this imply you have a vision of utopia?
Please describe it to us, including the happiness of your/our son’s as they tow hapless refugees back to Indonesia.
Dude every migrant, student and whatever self-selects by making an application and when even rapists can get speaking tour visas the DIAC people surely are not too fussy.
@marilyn – oh bullshit. They fill out forms, they apply, they get visas if they meet our criteria. That’s not self selection.
And if rapists get visas, it’s because special interest groups push the politicians to let them in. It has nothing to do with DIAC, whose rules are pretty clear.
It is self selection, it’s not as though anyone on the ground has a say in who immigrates whether they be wealthy or desperate. In this country, you’re not even allowed to discuss population levels unless you want to put yourself forward to be politically persecuted and hounded into virtual extinction like that poor Dick Smith. IMO, it’s better to take in poor people than middling to rich. The poor help to keep the economic system grounded and they tend to have a better ‘tude. Wealthier people are a burden on middle class resources and use up the same amount as they bring to the table, providing no net loss or gain in material terms.
Why don’t you ask Miss Gillard? Isn’t she running the country?
Here you go again Bob, asking Tony Abbott for his ideas. WHY? My personal opinion is that Australia is experiencing the worst Federal Government in the Nations history.
The Prime Minister and all cabinet ministers are abrogating their responsibility to carry out the task for which they were elected, that is to Govern.
The opposition cannot be blamed for the Governments failures. It is the role of the opposition to highlight the Governments failures and weaknesses and offer alternative policies. In some aspects they are also failing or at the very least falling short in providing any alternatives but the fact remains its not because of the opposition but the fault of the Government alone that it is failing to perform, and that is totally the responsibility of the Prime Minister and Cabinet ministers to fix. I however will not be holding my breath as they try to arrive at a solution. The Government Ministers just seem to me to be weak at leadership and regularly come up short(en) and now have fallen into the trap of name calling and to put it into very simple terms are completely inept.
The retirement of Lindsay Tanner, possibly the only person with the political skills to get them out of trouble was a travesty. Some one should have reminded him that if you are not in the side you cannot affect the outcome and just maybe he would still be there and Adam Brandt would not. A “win win” that was not foreseen and cannot be retrieved.
If things don’t improve soon the only solution will be to leave Australia all together and reside in Tasmania until it gets better or an election is called. What else can a person do with only one vote ?
Predictable responses from the conservatives :
“prison with hard labour for 10 years is not enough, bring back flogging”;
Grrr “flogging is not enough, bring back hanging.”
“Hanging is not enough, burn them at the stake or hang, draw and quarter them” . . .
The answer is always harsher treatment and more “law and order” enforcement, is it not?
Well the Pacific Solution never worked and nor did TPVs, except that it meant that women and children had to take the perilous journey themselves, not just their menfolk and juvenile boys.
Try thinking a little more, conservatives; “just say ‘no’” may work in some contexts but not all.
Doug, I must admit I am partial to a little flogging and drawing and quartering – especially of Lefties now and then.
Given that multiculturalism has utterly failed in Europe, we must be more vigilant in how we open our door in Australia and who we let in.
We should learn from Europe’s mistakes.
French president Nicolas Sarkozy denounced multiculturalism as a failure last year.
Attempts to build a multicultural society in Germany have “utterly failed” according to Chancellor Angela Merkel. At least the Germans have a capacity to call a spade a spade. Not here in Australia where self delusion by the incompetent Labor Government and bloggers here reigns supreme.
Sad truth is that too many of the lefties here think its a great success in Australia (too much ABC and SBS-TV viewing in my opinion) so we should flung the doors open and let all and sundry in without reservation or thought of economic capacity to handle and find work for them. 95 percent of asylum seekers are still on Centerlink payments five years on.
I wouldn’t mind if Bob Ellis could find them a job. But he can’t. Neither can his government.
See, its all about parading your heart on your sleeves. Empty rhetoric is what Labor people are good at. Or in Gillard’s case, how outraged she is by misogyny this week. Lets make a 15 minute speech about it. As if she cared…
Seems daft to me…
Over a billion dollars was spent on refugees coming into Australia last year.
That’s borrowed money.
That money that could be better spent elsewhere or used to repay the billions in debt squandered by Labor. $100 million a day is borrowed by the incompetent Labor Government. Money that will be re-payed by your children sometime into the future.
Define “utter failure” in Europe Frank. What exactly does that mean, flesh it our for me? What do you want us to be “vigilant” about Frank, do you want to be a vigilante perhaps? When you say “we” Frank, what does that mean? I take it you don’t mind taking their their money, Chinese investment for instance,
or the tourist dollars of “all and sundry”, no problem there is there Frank?
I gotta hand it to a guy who thinks you can stop the world in its tracks, stop its whole momentum, stop the march of 7 billion people living their lives to save a $100 million a day. You’re here Frank “parading you heart on your sleeve”.
You have no human decency Frank. Grow up and join the human race. You are a discusting neo- conservative. All you care about is yourself. The world is getting closer and you better join it or be marginalized with Abbott and his moronic followers.
Gee Frank so a multi cuktural society didn’t work in Germany? What would Gomer Pyle say to that I wonder? Surprise, Surprise.
Well Frank Germany is not really a good example is it? I mean they only gassed six million Jews, God knows how many Russians they murdered. O
cont. Only the Russians don’t count cos they’re all commies.
I’ve noticed there are a lot of Germans creeping into our government of late, I notice most if not all are coservative.
Und very interesting Frankfurter.What say you ?
Germans are alright, though I’ve heard the Austrians are dodgy. But it’s been discovered in recent times that England had been planning for WW1 years in advance. I think they were itching for it.
Ask some Germans about Bavarians, put out some nuts and chips, a little background music, and you have a party.
Austrians, well they are a different thing altogether, such a huge empire now such a little country defined by Mary Poppins in a dirndl. That is a lot of dues paid.
I met an Austrian in Singapore once. He was so excited to be there in that 8th floor part brothel/part backpackers, no one in his family or anyone he knew had travelled to such an exotic, far flung destination before. He felt like Marco Polo. We first got to talking when I commented on his black t-shirt that had “Wiener” emblazoned across the front in bold white letters. I wasn’t aware at the time that Wiener meant Vienna and thought mistakenly it was a joke t-shirt. He called a friend back home from a phone box just to say “guess where I am?”. I could hear the person on the other end saying in response to his breathless recital, “yes, guut, right. Yes, guut. Right. Ok. Goodbye. Right.” I think that guy I met must have been one Austrian in a million. He was special.
Maybe he’s the guy that jumped out of the space balloon. Once you get to the eighth floor you just don’t want to stop. Listen to the NASA radio link to Felix Baumgaertner, “Hey Karl, guess where I am, you’ll never guess where I am man, think of the Gross Glockner and then think again!”
Germany is a very good example exactly because of their past Phil, a very good example indeed, taken with the integration of former East Germany on top of all the rest. It’s always interesting to see how a country from the “losing” side teaches history and tolerance and the like.
I see no utter failure of German Society, no warring in the streets, no disruption to the capitalist society ticking along on its last legs, it all seems hunky dory.
The multicultural disharmony one sees in Germany is usually of the making by the white supremacist kind, the remnants of those dark years and the children and grand children of the likes of those that say the same kind of things Frank says.
The world moves on, we adjust, sometimes painfully. If you submit or surrender, the problem disappears, we have to work on how best to adjust to what is inevitable.
When India has a nuclear accident or Iran nukes Israel or Tonga is finally swamped by high seas and a large population have to be accommodated elsewhere, what are we going to do, bolster Passport control?
We should have refused the kids evacuated from England during the second world war. I wonder how many of them that stayed on turned out to be criminals, wife beaters, social welfare cheats?
Jesus H Christ I have noticed people on this blog have a tendency to tell people the obvious.
I agree with you up to a point. The Nazi party is still alive and kicking in Germany, yes I know it is Britain and other parts of Europe as well. The ghost of Mosely lives on.
Your point about the things Frank says is in direct correlation to the grandkids ,etc, of the left overs of the nutters that ran Germany WW2 was my point.
Nuance is not a great strength on this blog.
I was throwing out a line to see what I would catch.
The Nazi party is not alive and kicking in Germany Phil, or are you being nuanced? It is a peripheral movement without political validity. In the UK it is institutionalized as the BNP, in France it’s Le Pen, in Greece it is the Golden Dawn, to some extent in Italy it’s Liga Nord. It is against the law in Austria and I was there for ten years and saw the rise and rise of Joerg Haider’s FPO, up close, I pinned a corsage over the wonderful right tit of Heide Schmidt and joked with her with nervous fingers while looking directly into her incredible blue eyes. She had to split with Jorge even she couldn’t hack it.
And I heard the same good good culture bullshit that Frank goes on about. We should remain unsullied, we should protect forever this piece of God’s own, he should take a snap shot of it and keep it in his wallet.
If it was just a case of Nazi’s I’d be pretty relaxed, but what your seeing is the failure of Capitalism and its normal mode of response is to find a culprit to blame in this case immigrants, asylum seekers, “the others” for the likes of Frank to advise us to be vigilant about. Give me a honest to God Nazi skinhead over the likes of well meaning and wise Frank any day of the week.
We will agree to diagree on the Nazi party’s influence in Europe. What’s in a name? They the BNP, New Dawn all have the same M.O rabid right wing racist tools.
Being illegal matters not a jot, so is oral sex in many states in the U.S.
The influence of these groups is being felt in Australia, the government (opposition) has been tainted by this ideology to deny this is delusional.
Yes capitalism is failing, as Jim Morrison said get your kick,s before the whole shit house goes up in flames.
We have much sadness to come, of that I am sure.
I don’t disagree with you Phil, just in the case of Germany where something so blatant as a Nazi party cannot exist because of certain “sensibilities” and also because of laws laid down by the Allies after the war. Even the BZO, the Godzilla like offspring of the FPO in Austria has lost ground after the curious high speed car death of Jorg Haider. He was over the limit although no one saw him take a drink shortly beforehand. Rumour has it he took his drinks like he took a colonic irrigation, among friends so to speak. You would have been amazed at the state funeral they gave the guy, I’ve got it on DVD. A couple of years ago I drove past the site where he died, there is a roadside shrine that has sprung up there, much to the chagrin of the householders that live there. Haider makes Abbott look like a bleeding heart on all fronts, they are still digging through the crap Jorge left behind, simply amazing shit believe me, the sort of rorting and corruption raised in the cases of Coulston or Thomson or Slipper is just penny ante stuff compared to what Haider was able to come up with.
If you design a solution without understanding the problem, you are never going to make things better – if you try to implement that ‘solution’, you are always going to make things worse.
This people movement problem is not local or national, it is global and international. Its causes are neither understood or appreciated. The nature of war and conflict have changed, the concept of nations and borders have changed, the rôle and power of governments have changed, and the influence of the west has changed.
Like it or not, colonisation has always happened, just never before to us, instead of by us.
Well said Dali
Very well said.
Thanks Mr E – I blush.
And today, I read that Mr Abbott squibbed it with SBY in Indonesia regarding his TowBackTheBoats solution.
Further proof that he is by nature a bully – strong with the weak, and weak with the strong.
I will add my praise too, Dali. Your choice of pseudonym was not very promising, but your contributions have been excellent. I liked your latest poem as well. Thank you.
Germany is a special case : three or four million “guest workers” many with little or no chance of obtaining German citizenship. Why would they want to integrate or assimilate into Germany?
Those who come to this country, on the other hand, want to become Australian citizens and raise their Australian children.
A far more workable model of multiculturalism, where the immigrant can preserve what seems best from his or her own culture whilst acquiring Australian culture, even if only by osmosis.
The PM’s solutions, which are great if she says so but bad if Abbott says so.
“The Navy has turned back four boats to Indonesia. They were in sea-worthy shape and arrived in Indonesia. It has made a very big difference to people-smuggling that that happened… And we think turning boats around that are seaworthy, that can make the return journey, and are in international waters, fits in with that.”
“The proposal in this document, Labor’s policy, is that an unauthorised arrival who does have a genuine refugee claim would in the first instance get a short Temporary Protection Visa.”
Julia Gillard, Press conference, 3/12/2002
Yes, and I suppose Joe Stalin said nice things about Hitler in 1939.
Big fucking deal.
Adolph having escaped to the jungles of South America after the war, sitting in a grass in hut in about 1965 says to Martin Borman.
You know Martin, Joseph and the Jews I have forgiven them.
Did you read that book by George Steiner,”The portage to San Cristobel of A.H”? Very disturbing book.