This will not end well.
It may not end at all. By seeing the Iraqis as split by religion, Paul Bremer managed the create the division and then support one side. He was a poor choice for work he was supposed to do. But given that the whole idea of invading Iraq was pretty stupid, the appointment of Bremer was just the next in a long line of poor actions.
Such bad outcomes from the American decisions, it’s hard to imagine they were not deliberately intended.
It’s even harder to imagine they were, geo.
Don’t you think it’s possible that the outcomes of these decisions, albeit unimagined and unconsidered at the time of their arising due to the blindsightedness of the neocon and PNAC thinking behind the decisions to invade here, bomb there, drone a few over yonder, illegally render and imprison for years without habeus corpus or other due legal process, support the unsupportable and the, you know, guys with guns or oil or gas and so on… the traditional list of shady third-world relationships based on realpolity, commercial interests and short-term usefulness rather than genuine commitment to something truly democratic and fairly based, blinded by their ideological blinkers and unable to see beyond their projections of an American-managed utopian (for the Americans) future, were inevitable?
As they have sewn, so shall they reap, or something to that effect.
Bob’s comments on the Bremer legacy are spot on. If any western country ‘deserves’ to be tested by domestic terrorism, it makes sense to nominate the USA before European countries, but then, given geography and locale and the interpenetration of things political, and cooperation in the black arts of malfeasance between most western governments, it’s a sad observation that many will be targeted.
It’s what happens when you lie down with the devil, I suppose.
I think the Bremer legacy only has meaning when Westerners are killed.
When it’s Muslim on Muslim that legacy has no meaning that I can possibly fathom.
Certainly not one that I’ve ever read or heard from anyone, anytime, anywhere.
A keystone argument Glow.
Vive La France!
Fuck these Islamists. May they all blow up before leaving their rat-holes.
We may have to consider nuking Daesh.
Any reasonable person still in their territory is dead anyway.
I feel the same. But I don’t think the same.
It isn’t compulsory to think like me.
How fucked in the head is Senator Leyjonhelm!! He says every citizen should go armed. Every citizen at a rock concert armed? Drunk, high on drugs, high on testosterone and armed with an AK47 each. Yes, that would work.
What a let down. Had it been compulsory I could have been a courageous protester taking a principled stand. As it is I’m just a boring person with a bit of common sense.
Leyjonhelm is an effing genius. The scumbags wouldn’t even need to hide their weapons in transit.
Who is at fault and who knows what is of as much consequence to the orbit of our world now,
as a wildflower lately blooming in a desert.
A Middle East euchred of the pulse beat of its own ritual most assuredly,
will be reconciled.
Our sterile West can but watch, in frames of plasma,
As the moveable beast gives birth to the twenty first century.
I know a bit about France. I was born in Marseille and grew up there. Every few years I return to Marseille and depart saddened by its inexorable decline as more and more districts in a once great city become no-go zones where the windows of the police stations are sheeted with steel reinforcing mesh and the rule of law has been trashed, where innocent visitors straying a few metres from the ever reducing recommended path are fixed with the grim black-eyed glare of the new rapidly reproducing inhabitants who can turn an ancient and exquisite piece of architecture into a piece of trash in the space of one year and happily defecate on the sidewalk if the need arises.
France has welcomed Muslims, done the right thing for decades and these days France is the home of the largest Muslim population in Europe. On last count there were five million self identified subscribers to Allah in France. So much for a once a secular and enlightened country. Yet friendly France is attacked in the name of Allah.
Over time I have seen the ignorant Muslim street swaggers of Marseille spread to Lyon and Paris. In Paris last year I saw a darkening. The Marais district, once a vibrant and gentle Jewish and Gay stronghold is being invaded by the marauding middle eastern hordes who after dark, swarm through Porte Saint-Denis and accost females.
Be warned, Paris (and France) is fucked and it will only get worse as time goes by. The problem has nothing to do with Jerry Bremer. The problem is caused by critical mass.
Well said Edgar. You are a fine writer. Accurate too.
The French have a long and cruel Colonial past – they were proper bastards – read Camus just for starters.
So the children of the cheese eating surrender monkeys should be killed. I can see what you are saying but it seems somewhat harsh.
I believe some of the French ‘agents’ who sunk the Rainbow Warrior have developed a telling remorse – looking back they are shocked by what their government expected of them – what they actually did.
In Vietnam lie the relics of French habitation – stark reminders of a dark Colonial past.
Who knows the damage done to the French psyche as a result of the Rainbow Warrior incident, or nuclear testing, well away from France.
Do they hide this recent past from themselves? Sure NZ has forgiven them, well sort of.
Perhaps they should introduce more of this history in their classrooms – year 10/11 – like a reality check.
I don’t sanction any sort of killing Edgar – you know that.
And I forgot to add, did France not manufacture the hideous chemicals Saddam dropped on the Kurds?
France is hardly an innocent bystander.
How is that relevant?
Countries develop traits, personalities over time, some more friendly than others.
The Arab psyche v the Western psyche – Camus made a career out of this – how deep the divisions are – old vendettas…
The French Foreign Legion were hardly welcoming. They are no doubt well remembered.
How will the French react, how will the West react, that is the question?
Who is without guilt?
Chris, you bang on and on about Camus in a name dropping sort of way but provide no meaningful context and then seque into the French Foreign Legion and follow that with a question that could only be asked a hair shirt wearer.
Dear oh dear. The French are historic invaders, they are currently bombing out of control – as John Stewart the US commentator said – BLOWBACK!
For Christ sake Edgar – whoever heard of a war where you don’t get it back? – Abbott is right – we’ll get it back too – I thought that was understood when we joined the bombing fraternity – that we got it back – that’s what some of the silly posters (posers) here signed up for when they supported the bombing – you ALWAYS get it back – the name of the game – get it this time Edgar, fuck.
Now, is the oil worth it?
On the odds there would be a likelihood that the nature of the indiscriminate killing will mean that a few French Muslims apart from the attackers themselves have probably been murdered as well.
Nearly ten percent based on statistics. It’s crazy isn’t it?
Edgar It will not surprise me that in this day and age the perpetrators see themselves as non-discriminatory murderers, and that in a good way.
Well said Edgar.
I too have seen a little of that ugly boundary you document so succinctly.
That percentage is staggering and will now test, perhaps for the first time in a generation, the ability of incongruous peoples to co-exist.
I say that Southern Europe wil fail that test.
My abiding memory of Marseilles is the mirror roof on the harbour, a beautiful reflection of us, and our world:
Tony Abbott on 3aw Melbourne right now talking about the death cult…its for everyone. Abbots words. WTF.
It’s coming for everyone…
Exactly, Bob. I have reminded everyone I have spoken with today, who seem to believe Isis has somehow dropped from the sky to upset peace loving westerners, about our illegal war on Iraq and its subsequent disintegration, also brought about by Bremer and co. not having any plan when it wasn’t the ‘cakewalk’ advised by, I think, George Tennant. (Spelling?)
Apart from leaving the military with their guns, the amount of weaponry left about the place by the ‘coalition of the willing’ has added to the situation.
The tragedy is that the meddling in the middle east, most recently and directly GWB and Australia among others, is now reaping payback in the form of atrocious attacks on innocents.
Oh dear- I should have checked first as it is George Tenet – also it appears he was the one who said it would be a ‘slum dunk’ and someone else said cakewalk.
All things considered, I should have got that sorted before I posted.
Can’t wait to see The Sewer’s front page for the next 2 weeks along with The Herald Sun and The Oz….
Turnbull will go early on Terror!
Abbott, Dutton, the Libs, Murdoch, Jones, Bolt, Laws will turn on the Terror tap now like U have never seen it before!
These fuckwitz will go into a full on frenzy scare mode….frothing at the mouth, barking mad. You name it. Abbott will he all over the news with his daesh, death cult “I told you” trying to get his job back.
The simple fact is, we are targetted because we are invaders…we were warned but we keep invading…the result?
Australia is a less safe place to live in because of Liberal Wars and involving ourselves in disputes that have NOTHING TO DO WITH US
I have never been a fan of Mick Keelty and Peter Cosgrove but they were right. They both said that involvement in America’s wars makes our country less safe and more exposed to terror acts. Howard went berserk and made them publicly withdraw what any sane person would see as logically correct. Nothing though was allowed to interfere with a Liberal scare plan to win an election.
Get ready for the ride of your life! The Looters have been praying for something like this just close to an election. Criticise me as you may but anyone who says “The more boats that come together the better for us” (Liberals in unison in the party room and in the USA, reported by reliable sources) would cheer just as loudly for this…I am sure!
Uncharted waters now.
Abbott is banging his fist on a marble table top, cursing that he’s no longer PM, so that he could stand posing like a cycling dictator lost in a sea of ‘stray an flags… ” they’re coming to get us all”.
Le Pen, and the nasties across Europe, will be emboldened, and exploit it for every last ounce.
Posters here have alluded to, and emphasised, a particular historical aspect in the mix. None are ruled out, and all play their role. But this is real spin of the barrel, the end result we’ll only see over coming weeks and months.
Meanwhile, Russia has not been happy about the new tilt against them. See November 13 blog entry.
As the blog principal says: “You decide”.
Moon of Alabama
And how bizarre that the super torpedo/bomb was a brainchild of Sakharov.
I don’t understand why “all this” is happening, and I strongly doubt that any of us on the receiving end of it have even begun to understand.
It seems fairly clear though that the dozen or so agents on Friday 13th, their scores of assistants, their hundreds of agents in waiting, and their thousands of warriors, all understand why they are making it happen, and why they must continue and die in the cause.
And they have found their reasons their motives and their methods in history, ancient, medieval and colonial, but also much more recent, as Bob alludes to.
I bet these people talk of the twelfth century Hasan i Sabbah and his hashashin in the mountains at Alamut, about the glorious moorish civilisation at war with christendom, of the bloody crusades, the cruel french colonial empire beginning in the 17th and lasting till the 20th, including all of north and most of west Africa, at its peak ruling some 9% of the planet’s land mass, and 110 million inhabitants.
I bet there are hundreds of villages, hamlets and towns who’ve had Friday 13ths with 100 massacred, in Morocco, Algeria, Guyana, Tunisia, Libya Egypt. Don’t mention Indochine.
In this asymmetric warfare, I doubt that more guns and bombs and drones is going to swing much peace back to our lives.
Other ‘civilisations’ have come and gone; Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian, Moors. (perhaps to re-emerge in the coming decades) Why is the west immune? Especially if, like Mister Jones we know something is happening but we dont know what it is. And ‘they’ do.
Perhaps we need armies of historians philosophers and thinkers. Think tanks not bang tanks. Perhaps guided missiles, weapons of mass instruction.
Or we could all get used to living behind barbed wire like Heston in The Omega Man.
“I bet these people talk of the twelfth century Hasan i Sabbah and his hashashin . . .”
I bet they talk of suicide vests and a world where they are not expected to marry their cousins.
I bet they talk of how tough and important they are.
Other ‘civilisations’ have certainly come and gone … and while the French and Dutch, Spanish and Portugese were no slouches in the atrocity department, let’s not overlook the immaculate heritage of Great Britain.
Here’s a shortish list of their atrocities:
And if that’s a bit harsh, George Monbiot’s piece in ‘The Guardian’ from a few years ago (24 April 2012) might be of interest.
I doubt there’s a corner of this weary planet without the dark and deadly stain of man’s inhumanity to man.
Yes, I agree, that is the basis of peace – seeing the whole picture – how we are all playing into it – like Switzerland in WW2 as the bagman. Who is stain free?
Well, Libya was an Italian colony. Egypt, a British Protectorate.
Let’s mention Indochine.
Despite France’s grossly criminal behaviour, and the untold suffering it caused, the Vietnamese are not murdering the French decades later. Nor are the 16 nations that Germany invaded (or ‘just’ bombed the shit out of) between 1939 and 1945 seeking homicidal revenge today.
Are Asian nation nationals murdering Japanese citizens for that country’s many horrific crimes during 1930’s and 40’s? Nope.
Aboriginals in Australia and Canada, who still suffer the bitter consequences of colonisation? Are they loading up with guns and homemade bombs? Nope.
South American nationals hell bent on revenge against the U.S.A for systematically destroying their economies and backing illegal dictatorships? Nope.
The main driver of these terror attacks in France is not social and historical injustice. Those who have been the main victims of it in the Middle East are just the patties who are being re-victimised by radicalisation for the purpose of fighting a proxy war. It is the oil rich gulf states who are sponsoring and fermenting terrorism. States like Saudi Arabia, who are not oppressed, want for nothing and continually use their Muslim brothers as bomb fodder.
Also, the Ottoman Turks were despised for their cruelty by subject populations throughout the Middle East and North Africa, certainly more than the European Christian overlords who supplanted them. The Saudis particularly hated the Ottomans with a passion.
Libya – yes you’re right, but between 1943 and 1951 the French military ruled the southern half, Fezzan-Ghadames, and made several attempts to annex it to their empire in Africa.
Egypt – yes you’re right.
In any case you miss my point – I wasn’t singling France out as the only colonial villain, I was suggesting that those setting out to poison the minds of young muslims have a wealth of history with which to mythologise their jihad. They might have to twist it but not much.
Your point is moot. History is by its very nature is an infinite seam that can be mined by any group and sifted for a grievance to fit.
The point you avoid yet coyly allude to, is who are “those setting out to poison the minds of young muslims” and why.
Well, my opening sentence was “I don’t understand why “all this” is happening, ”
Who? Don’t have all their names, but the ones recruiting the bright young middle=class A-students in London, yes and in Leeds, as they sit among their stuffed toys and Simpsons posters, dreamy eyed at the magic window glowing in their bedrooms, and falling in love for the first time with some unseen spirit in the ether, who understands, O my god he can see into my soul, full real, and wants to save me from this fake life I’m stuck in.
Another dodge- almost Thatcheresque, well done.
You’re a smart bloke. Make an educated guess.
So the poor are radicalised by oppression and the well off radicalised by affluence.
Seems like a zero sum game.
Is there a common denominator here? Dare you reverently whisper its name?
“So the poor are radicalised by oppression and the well off radicalised by affluence.
Seems like a zero sum game.”
– That’s the second time today I’ve had cause to applaud your discernment and polemic Geoff.
A pleasure to read.
Why do Westerners always try and rationalise the Arab mind, like they think like us – they don’t.
And as long as we stay logical about our constant invasion of their territory we finish up with it all over us.
Just remember that the US trusts in God – written on their banknotes – OK – who is God?
Now who were the nutters again?
Ah, those irrational Arabs. There is no “Arab mind” as Edward Said and others have clearly articulated. Orientalism in both its liberal and conservative forms is still a form of ‘Othering’- used to either make excuses or to condemn.
Persians, the sponsors of Hezbollah and other Shiite instigated terrorism are not Arabs.
Kurds are not Arabs. They have a completely different way of thought processing from their neighbours and countrymen, I suppose.
You have pointed out one common truth, however. The rise of religious radicalism since the 1950’s in both the Arab world and the USA. “In God We Trust” and the addition of “God” in the pledge of allegiance occurred in the early 1950’s.
Replace mind with culture. Istanbul is a place I would like to visit – it seems to have room for both. Bucket list stuff.
I suppose you would agree that there is a mediterranean temperament, as opposed to a German logic?
I presume this is why Sartre and Camus came to physical blows, one the cold logician, the other with the sea in his heart, spontaneous, but no fool never-the-less (The Rebel).
Yes, Geoff G – the ‘Arab mind’ was a fabrication of European fantasists who were caught in their own, somewhat romantic hide.
It might be more useful to study why Islam has morphed from an enlightened, scholarly creed that once saved Europe from itself, to what it has become today.
Same for Christianity?
Chemical Christians – or as NZ poet James K Baxter wrote – “put some napalm on your forehead and watch your face run down your chest”.
Your philosophy is wearing thin – sooner or later you’ll bury the hatchet, or be buried with it.
What, in the post to which you have responded so unpleasantly, would you construe as ‘my philosophy’?
Your philosophy of bombing – what else? I may be simple but I have a memory.
What you find unpleasant in me is my unrelenting pacifism – you openly hate it – along with your buddies.
Give it a rest, chris – having a discussion with you is like having one with an elastic band: Twang!
Geoff G, it’s an excellent argument you make; cutting to ribbons the preposterous notion of reductionist Fools: ‘if we stop bombing them, they’ll stop bombing us’, or its useless corollary, ‘it’s all the fault of Big Oil’.
I lay blame for such lunacy at the feet of the soft Left and their disgraceful hypocrisy.
Great posts, keep writing.
Now rant like a fool.
That’s me writing as politely as possible.
And relieve you of your purpose?
20 odd posts from you and nary a syllable of value, insight, or direct response.
You’re out of your league in discussions requiring wide reading, rigorous consideration, and focused application.
That much is clear.
The West dropped this suicide pill several decades ago and I hold the soft Leftism of your ilk responsible.
The West, post Enlightenment, has never been able to resolve the conflict between its
moral core, Humanism, and that which sought its erasure – whether it be the animal in the human, the ideologies of Power, or the idealism of Faith.
And at its core – the paradox of multiculturalism.
So when I read your ‘stopping the bombing will stop the attacks’, I wonder what it is about this blog, this one in particular, that draws within its orbit, such simple mindedness, such finger nails on blackboard platitudes, such obstinate reductionism,
such banal idiocy as yours.
Chris, we go back a while, I actually remember you coming in, so I say this to you openly:
I read recently the lunacy of the past year; Claire’s arguments with George, Syriza, you, Dali, Islam, Mal, the Plagiarism Affair, all of it.
It’s still quite fresh in my mind and if I need clarification, I simply
flip through the posts, neatly sourced, catalogued, and referenced by name, subject and date.
Claire’s a stickler for such detail.
Anyway, I saw my name referenced and mocked.
I saw people here, that when language, argument, common sense, and decency, failed them resort to a shameful, cowardly and dishonourable mockery.
You were of that party.
And as such you will receive little reprieve from my contempt.
From this point on I will attack both substance and man as I see fit,
not for the sake of Deuteronomic retribution,
or as servant to vile fallacy,
but because you deserve little else.
I’m sure you’re a lovely guy in person – but here I find your simplicity an affront, your ceaseless equivocation deeply frustrating, and finally, your demonstrated cowardice, fucking shameful.
Rant as much as you like but don’t sit under my posts and affect some sort of challenge only to default, inevitably, to your idiocy.
There are plenty of others here who don’t appear to mind your crayon coloured spittle flecks.
Give them a spray.
I’m a bit busy with the soft Labor left revegetating the salt encrusted and dying planet we live on.
Can I use some of your endless words as mulch?
You are a pedantic disgrace Fedallah.
It’s gone far beyond that, if it ever was about that.
Australia has the highest rate of flora/fauna extinction in the world – let’s talk about that then.
It’s way to complex to stop the bombing.
Oh it’s only about people is it?
The highest rate because the rest of the world has already done its extinctions, over the last 2000 years or so. But we are catching up.
But never fear, there’ll be plenty of black face sheep for you.
My wife yelled stop the car and sure enough there it was – a very rare native plant (daisy) thought to be, well, virtually extinct.
Now noted, it had a ton of seed and will be reported to the Natural Resources Management Board.
Call it a win.
It would be good to wipe these stinking slaves of Allah off the face of the Earth forever and their Salafist religio-fascist ideology that’s killed millions of Muslims, secularists, atheists, Christians, Buddhist and Jews. Nothing less than their total annihilation and eradication forever.
chris – this just keeps getting more circuitous, but for the record:
1: The Bush/Blair/Howard invasion of Iraq was an abomination, and I have said so many times.
2: My much earlier post about confronting ISIS was based on my hope that the West’s blundering into Iraq would not paralyse us from dealing with the real evil that these fanatical religious murderers were wreaking – not just on the West’s soft underbelly, but on hapless people – women in particular – in their path.
3: You responded to my post about Burj al-Barajneh by saying you knew nothing about Arabia. I replied that Burj al-Barajneh is in Lebanon – and is a predominantly Shia neighbourhood in Beirut. My point – heaven help us all – is that in the same week that Paris was bombed, Sunni suicide bombers killed 43 innocent Muslims. Nothing to do with Israel, Bush, Blair, Howard, oil, the US, Coca-Cola or the West’s corporate, crypto-fascist/capitalist hegemony. And I asked if you had a view on this. I still don’t know what such a view might be.
4: To point three above, and your last point – I very much doubt that the unilateral withdrawal of all western nations would make the slightest difference to the deeply rooted animosities of this part of the world. You may have a different view. I’d be glad to hear it.
Malta has more of its fair share of nuns, so it’s odd to hear this joke from one:
A soldier in uniform runs up to a nun and makes a heartfelt plea to hide under her robes. He’s under there before she can say no. A Military Police jeep screeches to a halt in front of her “Sister ma’am, have you seen a GI go past here?” She says, without lying “No-one’s gone past here”
A very grateful soldier emerges, and hugs her “O thank you thankyou. I don’t want to go back to Iraq! O and by the way, if I’m not offending you, apart from being a bit hairy, you’ve got a fine pair of legs, Sister.”
“Well” says the nun, “if you’d looked a little bit higher, you’d see I don’t want to go back to Iraq either.”
A great post Glow.
Not at all wasted.
There are those of us who observe such things.
I hope so Doug, I really do…’cause all I’m hearing is the screeching.
How many times have I quoted TE Lawrence on this site – basically you fuck with the Arabs at your own peril.
You may disagree, I’m not one for stirring up a bees nest to get at their honey.
These attacks are utterly predictable, blind Freddy can see them coming.
Obfuscate as much as you like about Muslim ethics or lack of.
OIL – get it!
Wasn’t ISAL (like Al Quaeda and various Mujahadeen)something suported by the West, backing conservative religious against leftists who threatened Western interests?
You can identify Arabist financiers and the rest, but inevitably you must get back to the West itself and its shabby greed, games and cynicism.
By a stupendous irony it is both ISAL and its backers who were originally financed and protected by the West.
Oh for fuck’s sake, France was against the invasion of Iraq. Not in the “Coalition of the Willing”, antagonistic to George W and his criminal plan- but that won’t stop you from jamming one and two together to come up with anything to excuse these Saudi backed Wahhabi fuckers.
“Stern”! Oh, fuck off.
France was attacked because it is a fiercely secular state. Get it? The Republic is based on secular humanist principles. The nation of France is emblematic of the world’s perception of European culture at its pinnacle and in its decadence. It also has the largest Muslim population in Europe. The country is being strategically targeted in a brazen attempt to wedge the domestic population by humiliating and enraging the ethnic French and further alienating, stigmatising and marginalising the Muslim French. The goal is to provoke radicalisation across the domestic divide. It’s the second attempt this year to light a powder keg.
Hollande is right. It is an act of war. Committed by the proxies of Saudi Arabia- seething, filthy rich done nothing nobodies who have projected all their misplaced anger into fuelling a repressed and retarded version of Islam.
Tout ce que vous dites a l’anneau de la vérité, Monsieur Geoff G. Salut.
C’est vrais .. c’est vrais.
Welcome back to the land of plenty GW.
Is there an emoticon for sheepishly circling the dirt with one foot and blushing?
Even though some publishing dolt translated Nancy Pickard’s novel Ring of Truth as L’Anneau de Vérité, it’s not a phrase used by the french. According to Bastien, ‘usban’ of mah neece, ees not zat kahn of ring.
Anneau goes on your finger. Ring of truth is from coinage.
“In the past coins were actually made of gold, silver or other metals. Their value depended on the amount of gold or silver they contained. Some people would make counterfeit coins by mixing gold or silver with a cheaper metal. However you could check if a coin was genuine by dropping it. If it was made of the proper metal it would ‘ring true’ of have the ‘ring of truth’.”
Yeah, I knew it was the wrong translation when I pressed the ‘YeeHaa!’ button … although idiomatically speaking, it might still work!
I blame jetlag.
I know, I know – using up earth’s resources and piling up more money for the Saudi oil sheiks to fund their favourite chapter of ‘Terrorism Inc.’ but I can no longer walk or bicycle everywhere, and I want fresh water to come out of the tap when I turn it on, and light to illuminate my room when I flick a switch … hairshirts never looked good on me:
they say the battle is all over
and the wars have all been won Lord
call him Rama, Allah or Jehovah
one is one when it’s all been said and done
It’s got the ring of truth about it.
Mark Gillespie, once my neighbour, a great man and songwriter.
Does that translate as Rainbow Warrior or Pacific nuclear testing – years since I studied French?
Geoff G – my thoughts to the letter.
That wedge has every chance of success if the Left’s mind and spine go missing……again.
It was a Dutch citizen (photographer) who was killed by French agents during the sinking of the Rainbow Warrior.
You are such a goose.
Geoff G November
Little, irrelevant nation syndrome?
Say that to his family and the two headed fish in the South Pacific.
I’m sure the family of the victim of the Rainbow Warrior bombing, and indeed all the peoples of the Pacific will be pleased to have ISIS take up their grievances against France in such a manner.
Because these terrorist acts against France are sure not in retaliation for invading Iraq or not condemning Israeli oppression of the Palestinians.
Geoff G – it is being reported that killers cried out ‘this is for Syria’as well as ‘God is great’.
Now meetings being quickly cobbled together about how Syria can be resolved diplomatically- meetings including US, Russia, Iran etc -no matter how fierce Hollande is in speech.
Such a terrible tragedy that the masters of war bring payback to the innocents in all their societies.
Geoff G – it was Christopher Hitchens who also said that at its heart, this was about the struggle for the control of Islam itself:
Hitchens was, to my mind, and to the dismay and disgust of the Left, quite right.
As much as I love French culture, art, philosophy, I am not going to let this interfere with my understanding of them as international bullies.
Doctors without borders (MSF) were hit by allied jets – they wanted to know who was flying them but nobody is talking about this – why?
You see, even the French themselves have a varying view of the justice being meted out in the ME.
Hi Bob, that is a good narrative but it is not explanation enough for the rapid rise.
It’s not rapid. It took twelve years.
As long as Napoleoon after the storming of the Bastille.
Looks like the National Front will be running France soon enough.
Bit of a mistake that colonialism business. 7 percent of the population submiting to 6th century fairy tales and a dangerous minority of them believe in blow jobs in paradise and women getting round with bags over their heads.
France has a demographic problem with culturally induced mental illness. Not sure how they put the brakes on that.
As Chris Hitchens used to say:
“Lets not get too liberal”.
Geez …. love the ‘Bit of a mistake’ paragraph …
Very hard to get one’s head around the rationale for fairy tales, paradise and headwear.
The collective mental illness of the world is a worry.
And didn’t they hate him for it?
The New World arrived with 9/11 and the consequent invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan. It was always going to have chaotic consequences and all means of deception and destruction have been used in its prosecution.
I was an exhibitor in an iconic NY art exhibition (now in the collection of Washington State Library). The gallery was initially covered in debris, my message to NY was to turn the other cheek but instead they set the world on fire – well smouldering into eternity.
I never cease to be amazed at Bob Ellis and his ability to render that which appears complicated into comprehensible form.
PW – yes, it is a great gift.
John, they never learnt from Vietnam. I dont think many have wanted to learn.
They are like us in that respect.. she’ll be right.
“On the case of the Syrian passport found at the scene of the terrorist attack, we announce that the passport holder had passed from Leros on October 3 where he was identified based on EU rules.”
(Reported this morning – BBC)
And confirmation that the European Right, damn their black hearts, have just pulled an ace from the pack.
Was he aiming to escape and get back out?
Was it the piece of information he meant to leave behind, the magic beans, the fuck you?
The slow burning fuse, the diverter of resources to a senseless search, the great eater of money that would normally be used to fund Western civilization given over to the “you can never have enough security” spook Mandarins?
What surprises me a little, is that there is no left/right divide among ISIS, or doesn’t seem to be. if you take a facet of chris hunter’s argument in regards to the Corporates, I would think there would be a like argument within ISIS eager to kidnap Corporate CEO’s, or attack Corporate assets, hit revenue streams.
Yesterday was soft, soft targets, rock concerts full of young people, soccer crowds, restaurant sitters. The young Parisians might have been more sympathetic to the cause of ISIS, or at least more weary of the ruling generation’s handling of it. But whoever did this said, fuck it, we don’t need your understanding.
No charming Baader is going to emerge from this movement, nor an intellectual Meinhof to offer justification.
I can’t remember the name of that American educated Egyptian pan-Arabian nationalist who may just have started all this way back when in the days of Truman and Eisenhower. Natty suit, bow tie, high waisted pants. Harvard or Yale or some such.
The arrogance of an idea is enough to kill off..well just about everything given the right circumstances.
Ah well, chemical weapons are being manufactured as we speak – they are being made for someone – no?
No doubt, no doubt.
Ask Howard he has now reaped what he sowed, but I bet his pension does not allow his pea brain any remorse or apology for his crimes.
Who started all this.GW,TB and the willing desiccated coconut.
Jeeez, you guys … can you use GWB as the moniker for George Dubbya?
My heart stops every time I see GW …
“Yesterday was soft, soft targets, rock concerts full of young people, soccer crowds, restaurant sitters.”
– The Perfect Target.
One could not construct a more absolute or consummate space, or ply more impeccable figures in which to play out this current battle.
It is a master-stroke.
And it will not be the last.
You single word of yesterday rings constantly in my mind – watershed.
Perhaps the perfect target was the MSF doctors and patients at Kunduz hospital, but nobody has really owned up yet – gutless – any ideas Fedallah?
Or is it all too simplistic for you – it’s all about Paris?
Tell the French doctors that – they are outraged at this war crime of war crimes.
Tried to turn this off the TV yesterday, channel 7 were making a real meal of it. Quite similar to the week before cept it was then it was the gee gees, talking endlessly about nothing. Some Numbskull supposedly a terrorism expert conflated asylum seekers and the Paris outrage suggested that europe would have to look at that pretty seriously, though he was in a suit coat not a tweed jacket with leather elbows I thought that was innovative. This stuff never fails to surprise me, strong and intelligent people I respect turn to water before my very eyes, all rational thought flies out the window and I must listen to peaceloving folks talking about doing evil too, it’s a fucking ugly business..
Yeah, don’t bother with the telly for a couple of days, it will be hopeessly clogged with stuff telling five minutes of story over spans of hour after hour.
A feeding frenzy.
We live in The Society of the Spectacle – news 24/7 – and don’t they thrive on it!
We won’t get rid of Turnbull now, he will ride the wave of terror with eloquent but obvious rhetoric and the punters here will love him all the more.
I thought the rhetoric weary,flat and stale and lacked any defiance, and dragged from the bottom of drawers and spoken with less gusto than the countless times before each time something like this happens.
A thought that I have had, is that over the years Governments have talked down their case as to being an effective body for offering services of any kind. Governments have outsourced all types of responsibilities because the private sector are supposedly more efficient, more economical, more effective, better, faster, cleaner, cheaper blah blah blah.
They have undermined their own authority in the process. Why should we believe that Government can handle this kind of stuff, when they can’t fund a health system or an education system, look after the aged, or provide child care?
And now in urgent times, they come once again with the rhetoric of let’s stand together, we will not be beaten etc etc. When on every other front they say we are unable to maintain what we have?
allthumbs, there is always plenty of money for war. I regularly see the arse end of it on my visits to Ward 17.
The really angry ones now are the Iraq and Afghanistan vets – utterly cynical about our involvement over there – and being seriously fucked over by the DVA as well – unless it’s ANZAC day when the troops are well – automatically lauded.
Yep, and if Labor had opposed going back into the ME we would have a real contest of ideology at the next election.
Yeah like the Insiders and yesterday’s news, Turnbull doing a “fig leaf talk” hands down and covering the exposed genitalia then today sombre, concerned and unsmiling , but trying to still convey his “i have a dream” but not doing a Tony, who it seems is still in a puglistica mood.
Imagine if the French people started to flee France to escape terrorist attacks and the world demonised the victims and turned them back?
200,000 plus dead , millions flee and are demonised. Oh…I forgot western lives are more valuable.
The iconic “blowback” episode by Jon Stewart on the Daily Show said it all.
The hide of America to think that they could wage war all over the planet and not get something back – 9/11.
And Hillary Clinton in full orgasm (Philip Adams) when GW announced the new wild west policy for squaring the ledger.
Yeah, right, where is the bottom of the ledger?
Clinton is a goose, God help us if she gets the gig.
There is no way we would ever do this to whitey.
A more likely scenario might involve Vlad rolling into a Baltic State.
Can you imagine Australia turning away a bunch of blondes who chartered a boat to start a new life out here?
Of course not. The ink wouldnt be dry on the creation of a new “whitey in trouble” visa class to accomodatd then before they reached the exclusion zone.
Weve seen that counterfactual when Howard (rightly) offfered sanctuary to any white Zimbabwe farmers getting persecuted by Mugabe.
The conversation changes very quickly if whitey is in trouble.
Whitey can get real nasty with Whitey. MSF doctors were outraged at the deliberate coalition targeting of Kunduz hospital. Just because they refuse to take sides when treating the wounded? No explanation from the coalition as yet? Hell no.
And what about the town they flattened the other day trying to get at Jihad John. Did they get him?
Precision bombing – that’s what we were promised.
Abbott crossed his heart on this. Yeah right.
200,000 plus Syrians dead.
Something is going on in Syria that we don’t understand.
The US, Australia, France and others have been supposedly bombing ISIS there and in Iraq to no effect.
When Russia got involved things started to change.
Is it possible that we are actually enabling ISIS in an attempt to destroy Assad, as happened to Gaddafi in Libya?
Is it possible that these attacks in France were not by ISIS but by Syrians attempting to motivate the West into destroying ISIS instead of using it as a proxy?
That could well be right. The West wanted to destroy the Assad regime, and if Daesh did that for them well and good.
But with the usual flair for fucking things up, the West has allowed a greater evil to prosper.
Daesh is the enemy of humanity, and the West is now seeing the truth for itself.
When compared to America, it may not be the relatively low numbers killed or injured in Paris which unnerves us. It may be the realisation that suicide bombers have nothing to fear as they are assured of everlasting life.
And it may be the anticipation of such a group acquiring a small nuclear weapon placed in the back of a van or in a container and driven to the centre of a city such as Paris where it would certainly be detonated.
As we have seen in Palmyra the destruction of monuments is inconsequential, and people equally.
Hey Francis, listen, we need you to do us a solid, we need you to come clean with the eternity thing.
We’ve been doing some back channel communications and they are willing to let go of it if you will, the eternity concept I mean.
Well, just say he’s not all powerful, pretty powerful but not all out balls to wall powerful and that we have made some progress over the last couple of millennia and we’re a little closer to sitting at the table.
But we can talk about that later, let’s just knock the eternity thing on the head, because frankly you and I know it, no harm done, people are living longer now, long enough for them to start complaining about how long they have to live.
Whattya say? It’d help us out of a bit of a jam?
Laugh out loud funny!
Nice one, allthumbs.
Nah, can’t do it. Slave morality needs an eternity for, well, eternity.
Oh, and I just got word down the pipeline -that Freddie Nietzsche aint fond of barbies.
Can’t blame the kids for going mad, we have truly stuffed up the world for them, and us too.
Perhaps it is their only chance. Become a terrorist, travel and see the world, kill people and destroy countries. Pretty gross from all angles.
If one terrorist was a Syrian, by his passport, then you just have to go look at the devastation war has done to his country, to understand where he was coming from. It’s the madness of men and wars.
And now we have our arch madman Abbott pipe up, as the big warrior man, who brawled with his mate at his ousting party, broke a marble table and left the guy in a wheelchair. Geez! they are now looking to idolize him. It’s pretty obvious we have a problem with brutes parading around under the guise of leaders.
I think TA should be promoted to the rank of platoon leader and be shipped to Syria next week. I believe an excellent role for him would be as Death Cult Canon fodder.